Character stereotypes of WWII?

[Howard Whitehouse]

Those of us who grew up watching British and American films about WWII (mostly made from the 1950s to the 70s) know that every unit will feature a diverse mix of personalities, all brought together to fight Hitler/Tojo.

An American squade will always have an Italina-American guy from New York. He'll be hot tempered.

There'll be a big, slow witted farmboy, a college kid with glasses, and a southerner who drawls and can shoot the eye out of a leaping squirrel. Someone will get a 'dear John' letter, and must therefore die in a crazy act of heroic self-sacrifice before the film ends.

If it's a Really Important Mission, they won't send a veteran unit who know one another well; they'll pick a bunch of misfit convicts with serious personality disorders. We don't know why. It's not as if they aren't willing to risk the lives of rangers or airborne troops.

British units are strong on cheery cockneys, Irishmen who like a drop to drink, and members of the aristocracy who are serving as corporals.

Who am I missing?

And I ask our German friends whether (since WWII is understandably not a subject for cheerful entertainment in Germany), are there German military stereotypes of the same kind that would fit into a s 'typical' WWII squad? Who are they?

[Lowtardog]

Brits, Well theres the Bonza Aussie who says Pom a lot when talking about his British officer, the blunt and aggressive Scotsman. The Upright pace stick carrying RSM (with a secret heart of gold)

For Germans there are the stereotype Party member "for you zer War is over" and the Prussian Offcier with Monocle.

Yanks - the Wisecrack often from NY but not necessarily.

TOJO - always cruel and heartless

Also in most movies theres a Coward, the one who knows he is going to die, an intellectual, must be more

[Driscoles]

By Jove Howard,

this is an interesting post.
All this weird war stuff is finally sent back into the doomed brainlabs of there birthgiver....  No offense guys hehe....

In German movies about the war there is always. ALWAYS the sworn in Nazi.
He is totally convinced by the ideas of the Nationalsozialismus. He will die for those ideas and usually does either with his neck broken while hanging from a tree or shot by some good americans / tommies  or not so good russians. Sometimes he kills himself when all is desperate ( Der Untergang)

He is accompanied by a few guys who follow him - not because they are die hard nazis - NO  they do it because of there sheer will to survive and the better rations and easier missions. ( See the Stalingrad ) movie.

Than there is the one who learned and is now depressed. " Oh Hans, I thought it was all good we did, but now after all this fighting my eyes are opened. We are all criminals. God schütze uns when the enemy gets his revenge on us."

Then there is the smart guy. He played piano, or was a teacher, or the class best schoolboy. He is not a born warrior and is teased by his Kammereaden. But when he is sent to war he comes back as the hero but unfortunately has to die ( see 08/ 15 Die Brücke )

Then there is the follower type of guy. He is smart, he is loved by all his fellow soldiers. He makes jokes about the Unteroffizier and he does not like war but he does what he has to do and in the middle of the show he becomes a hero, saves his platoon, looses a couple of friends and comes home and is sour because all is destroyed but he spits into his hands and Teutonic efficiency is born.

The coward ( Steiner das Eiserne Kreuz ). Not a real Nazi, but some bloke from a rich family most probably he is old prussian Offiziersadel and even in german movies likes to wear a monokel. In german movies he usually survives and has a good job in the new Bundesrepublik ( that was  Germany after the war - for the americans out there    ) This is a popular recipe for the german problem or Autoren movie )

The hero, is probably the same guy like in the Hollywood shows. He has a girl, is good looking, actually he is good in everything and kids like to be him. But this type of guy often dies in german war movies. Oh....do we have heroes in german war movies. No ...I forgot... We never have heroes in our war movies...I forgot that because I saw lots of american war movies  :mrgreen:

Iam sure some more things come into my mind but for now I have to close, cuz work calls.

Bye Howard
Björn

[Ironworker]

Well there is always the totally incopetant Lieutenaunt and the "can do anything" Sergeant who usually has to at some point slap the Lieutenaunt silly in one scene then in the next chew out the privates for disrespecting the Lieutenaunts rank.

[xeoran]

US squads should always include one slightly older guy to be called Pops, a hard drinking Texan, a fresh new recruit from Stateside, a Puerto Rican, A Polish Guy and in more recent films, a Jewish fellow. Ultra-sensative Corpsmen are also pretty common.

British films have the lovable working class lad (usually cockney), the dour Scot, the chattty/odd Welshman, the Sergeant Major with a large moustache who bellows at everyone, the working class tough (miner/docker), the rotund middle class man, the useless officer (very posh, possible speech problems and very straight hair), the dashing officer (David Niven essentially) and the tough old warbird who's been in the Army since Gordon was lost at Khartoum. The comedy "Square Peg" with the mighty Norman Wisdom sends up most of these characters very well as well as several German cliches.

[Plynkes]

It's funny how in films done from the German side, as Björn says, there is always one dyed-in-the-wool Nazi, and everybody else absolutely hates them!

If this were true, how did they ever get into power? It's like 1945, suddenly you couldn't find a single person who had supported the Nazis in the whole of Germany!  :wink:



In any film, no matter about what nation, there is always one fella worried about his girl because she hasn't written in a bit. He fears she's run off with some other chap and will often go AWOL to find out the truth. The officer who until up to now the other ranks haven't liked much will stick his neck out to help the fellow out, and in the aftermath suddenly the team will gel as a fighting unit.

Variations on that one is in several pictures I can think of.

[Poliorketes]

It's funny how in films done from the German side, as Björn says, there is always one dyed-in-the-wool Nazi, and everybody else absolutely hates them!

If this were true, how did they ever get into power? It's like 1945, suddenly you couldn't find a single person who had supported the Nazis in the whole of Germany!  :wink:

Might have two reasons - soldiers loose their idealism fast and of course everybody else was Nazi (or communist, or even loyalist back in AWI), but not me...

For a german crew there are two types of nazis - the old, hardcore SS-killer-type (as in US-movies) and the young, Hitler-Jugend-boy (as in german films) who is bound for tragedy.

Then there is the opportunist (Steiners Officer), the old prussian professional officer (has to be shot by the Nazis or himself), the sturdy Feldwebel (similar to the sarge in US/UK-crews), the organiser and of course the soft-hearted who rescues the russian child or grandma to die in the attempt. Unlike the US-you'll have most of the squad as veterans

[TadPortly]

Brits, Well theres the Bonza Aussie who says Pom a lot when talking about his British officer, the blunt and aggressive Scotsman. The Upright pace stick carrying RSM (with a secret heart of gold)

Don't forget the early war films and the Canadian who is only there so a well known American actor can play the part.

The hard drinking British officer who's seen to much and finds it hard to cope, only to come up trumps at the end.

The British martinet who is a stickler for the rules, who usually punishes the most popular and/or youngest and most inexperienced soldier and dies nastily before the end.

The Dickie Attenborough nervous character who panicks.

For Germans you have the staunch Nazi, who reports his colleagues for defeatist talk.

The Steiner type of hardened veteran who's seen it all and is weary of war.

The young and inexperienced soldier who usually dies needlessly.

The Stransky type martinet.

The German sniper who stays behind to singlehandedly take on the enemy.

More generically the Germans almost never surrender, they always have to be killed. They also seem to shoot people who try to surrender.

Finally you have the sentries who always offer each other a cigarette, show pictures of their wife/children/girlfriend and get killed by Tommy commandoes

[Ironworker]

This discussion reminds me of a skit I saw on Youtube a while back about all the different sterotypical Nazi Generals.

[xeoran]

If this were true, how did they ever get into power? It's like 1945, suddenly you couldn't find a single person who had supported the Nazis in the whole of Germany!  :wink:

Well it depends on how they became a Nazi. For instance some socialists were Nazis because of the Socialist aspect of National Socialism. One fellow my father interviewed became a Nazi because the other block were Communists. Some viewed them as restoring Germany after Versailles. Some were unemployed who liked that they got employment. Others supported their good economic record. Others were anti-Communist. And so on. And then of course there were just Nazis, people who believed in eugenics, in totalitarianism, in fascism, in racial superiority.

The real difference between soldiers and civilians is in their jobs. Regardless of war a majority of combat soldiers seem to stop being idealistic or revoke their beliefs to the back of their minds to focus on the day to day life in all but the most fanatical units (like the SS and Waffen SS). You see the same in nearly every war.

The reason in 1945 is simple: after the camps were discovered who was going to be nice to a Nazi? Plenty still existed. I have a copy of the British Army's 1945 guide to Germany and it makes this point.

[/i]

[Plynkes]

Xeoran, I was being a little facetious. I had assumed that was obvious, perhaps not. I agree with what you say entirely, and took that as going without saying.

But don't think I was having a go at the Germans necessarily. It's just human nature. Most folks just keep their heads down and get on with things. That very urge to keep out of things is what allows evil to prosper, unfortunately.

The same sort of thing can be seen in reverse in France in the summer of 44. Suddenly everyone is scrambling to establish their resistance credentials and be more patriotic than the next chap.

I'm sure it wouldn't have been much different if a Facist regime had arisen in Britain, or if we had come under the thumb of Hitler ourselves.

[JollyBob]

Well, I think you've covered more or less all the stereotypes I've seen in movies. But there is one more thing I learned from American films.

Never, ever, stand next to the guy who's wife has just had a baby, and who talks about getting home to see them "when this whole damn mess is over".

Because he is going to die. Usually quite explosively.

[Howard Whitehouse]

I'm interested in the various German types especially.

Aside from the "Evil Nazi/not a Nazi at all/regrets about what he no longer believes in/fanatical  Hitlerjugend  boy" stereotypes (which are fascinating, by the way!) how about those traditional German cliches?

For instance, I was once assured (while drinking with a bunch of Swabians outside Stuttgart) that Bavarians were all fat, stupid and drunk. Since (being drunk and fairly stupid themselves at the time) my hosts were in the mood to share their opinions freely, I also learned that Prussians were humourless workaholics, and that Austrians were like American rednecks.

I'm sure that, once they'd all sobered up, their views moderated quite a bit.  :wink:

 After all, I may have told them that Glaswegians were all violent drunks, and that you can't trust anyone from Manchester. But I'm sure I didn't ---  ::

So, who else should be in this German unit?

[Durutti]

This discussion reminds me of a skit I saw on Youtube a while back about all the different sterotypical Nazi Generals.

Alas Smith and Jones

brilliant sketch, had a load of great stereotypes, like the General who is always picking up the phone and shouting "get me zer fuhrer!!" the one whose uniform is always a different colour to the rest, and the one who listens to the classical music with his eyes closed.

[TadPortly]

I'm interested in the various German types especially.

Aside from the "Evil Nazi/not a Nazi at all/regrets about what he no longer believes in/fanatical  Hitlerjugend  boy" stereotypes (which are fascinating, by the way!) how about those traditional German cliches?

For instance, I was once assured (while drinking with a bunch of Swabians outside Stuttgart) that Bavarians were all fat, stupid and drunk. Since (being drunk and fairly stupid themselves at the time) my hosts were in the mood to share their opinions freely, I also learned that Prussians were humourless workaholics, and that Austrians were like American rednecks.

I'm sure that, once they'd all sobered up, their views moderated quite a bit.  :wink:

 After all, I may have told them that Glaswegians were all violent drunks, and that you can't trust anyone from Manchester. But I'm sure I didn't ---  ::

So, who else should be in this German unit?

Definitely Swabians!  According to my Berlin friends they have a reputation for financial accumen similar to the Scots over here (i.e. tight).  Also, they have a dialect which is difficult for other Germans to understand (Schwabisch).

That said I have stayed in the Swabisch area quite a few times and found them quite charming hosts.