Wars of the Roses - Yorkists

[CyberAlien312]

Hi,
I finally received the first bunch of my WOTR miniatures (a box of perry infantry, Salisbury, York, Warwick, Richard III & command) and I'm going to paint a Yorkist army!  
Today I made a start by painting up the earl of Salisbury, and here's what he looks like now. Please tell me what you think.
Cheers!

[Arlequín]

I think he looks excellent, particularly as Salisbury's CoA is not the easiest design to do freehand. Well done! 

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

Excellent - well done

[Belisarius]

More please

[einarolafson]

Very nice!! Looking forward to seeing more of them painted!!

[Blackwolf]

Nice!!!

[CyberAlien312]

Thanks for the comments!

[15th Panzer]

Great start. He does have cool coat of arms. If memory serves me right (it mostly doesn't!) his livery troops wore red and black which I know from experience (Northumberland) looks great on the figures. Look forward to seeing your future Yorkists. Cheers.

[max]

Nice coat of arms! Looking forward to seeing some troops...

[Arlequín]

If memory serves me right (it mostly doesn't!) his livery troops wore red and black which I know from experience (Northumberland) looks great on the figures. Look forward to seeing your future Yorkists. Cheers.

That was what the Freezywater books reckoned too... but the Nevilles and Percys were both neighbours and rivals and the Percy livery is also given as Red and Black (until Tudor times, when it went to a three colour pattern), so would they really use the same colours - at the same time? Might be a tad confusing. However, it might be that Northumberland's colours are popularly wrong*...

Salisbury's garter stall plate shows that his crest mantling colours were red and black and are usually the best indicators of livery colours around (mostly)... so with his gold griffon badge, would probably look quite good.

* and were possibly black, or red and blue, as mentioned here.

[Captain Blood]

Nicely done.
I've painted him - although not as Salisbury. But IMHO he's one of the Perrys best figures in the entire range.
Looking forward to more 

[JollyBob]

Lovelyt freehand on the livery - excellent work.  Looking forward to seeing the rest of your force painted up!

[15th Panzer]

That was what the Freezywater books reckoned too... but the Nevilles and Percys were both neighbours and rivals and the Percy livery is also given as Red and Black (until Tudor times, when it went to a three colour pattern), so would they really use the same colours - at the same time? Might be a tad confusing. However, it might be that Northumberland's colours are popularly wrong*...

Salisbury's garter stall plate shows that his crest mantling colours were red and black and are usually the best indicators of livery colours around (mostly)... so with his gold griffon badge, would probably look quite good.

* and were possibly black, or red and blue, as mentioned here.

Great research. Read with interest and logged. Your point about local rivalry makes perfect sense. Does this mean I have to re-paint a quarter of my Lancastrian army painted so far? Gulp.

[Arlequín]

Great research. Read with interest and logged. Your point about local rivalry makes perfect sense. Does this mean I have to re-paint a quarter of my Lancastrian army painted so far? Gulp.

Thanks... and I really don't know to be honest.  

Liveries are really confusing, as unlike coats of arms they didn't stay fixed. For example, Lord Howard appears to have used black, then changed to blue when he became Duke of Norfolk, according to his household accounts at least, yet other sources describe his men as wearing Red and his son as using Red and White. The one common factor appears to be the badge, which was the white lion (and the white sallet for his son, who also took on the white lion later).

The first Percy Earl appears to have also used red and black, as did Lord Poynings (2nd Earl), but his other son, Lord Egremont (d.1460), appears to have been the main protagonist in the Percy Neville dispute and is often mentioned as handing out 'illegal livery', which might imply he used different colour(s) to what were the normal Percy colours... or just that he wasn't empowered by law to raise men.  Salisbury and John Neville (as Lord Montagu in 1460 and briefly Earl of Northumberland) appear to have used the same colours as the Percys at some point.

The only other option I can think of is that Salisbury adopted the traditional Percy colours after 1455 to make a point and had used different colours previously. This might account for the change to red and blue (or black trimmed red?) for the 3rd Percy Earl. Judging by the letter shown in the link, there's no reason to believe that all the Percy forces even wore a single set of colours. Just how much red and black cloth could you get hold of in a hurry to cloth several thousand retainers?

I wouldn't re-paint them, the colours are confirmed and valid... it just seems downright odd to have opposing forces apparently wearing the same colours.  

[CyberAlien312]

Hi all,
I just painted my first man at arms and I wondered if it looks good enough to paint the rest of the men at arms in the same way? Sorry for the bad picture, by the way.
Cheers!