Reaper Kickstarter

[eMills]

Actually, i'm not that angry because of the delay, i've plenty of other stuff to do here.
I'm more upset by the way they're managing this. Not the worst way, but i don't like that people are now just defending them because they offered a great deal. The two things are simply unrelated. ^^"

I'm not defending them because of the deal.  I'm defending them because they seem to be a good group of folks running an honest business.  I really do not see the issues with their management.  When they find out about a delay, they report it.  Usually as soon as they have hard facts about what caused the delay and when things will be back to normal. And they have typically given in depth explanations as well.

The great deal IS directly related to the "solutions" you posted.  They "spent" a good bit of money giving us the deal.  Discounts are profits they never made, and therefore money they don't have available to spend.

About the pledge manager, they said how hard was to organize such a big program, and how hard was managing the forms. Even using some kind of protections to avoid frauds, that is a form.

What do you do for a living?  I'm betting it has nothing to do with software or database coding.

for the 5 weeks:
they said that the container takes 6 weeks to arrive, and it was shipped now. So, starting from 5-6 weeks ago, they should have known that this big boy wasn't going to arrive in time.

Maybe.  Not sure that really pans out either.  There was at least one national Chinese holiday in the past couple weeks, which quite possibly delayed news of the, ah, delay.

That said, i can happily wait, and i'll be really happy at the end too. But still, they are just playing a little with us. Other companies were even worse... well, that's not an excuse ^^"

Again, still not seeing it.  Other companies being worse was assuredly not an excuse, especially not if you are referring to MY posting of that fact.  They have certainly never used that reasoning, and I doubt they ever would.

~Eric

[OLeary]

Personally I'm not sweating it because I know they'll make good on it. It'll come and in the meantime, I've loads of stuff to paint. There's a reason we all build lead mountains.

[beefcake]

A little miffed that retailers are allowed to sell this stuff before they have all been delivered. The again there's eBay sellers anyway. Still looking forward to it.

[Sangennaru]

What do you do for a living?  I'm betting it has nothing to do with software or database coding.

guess what: you lost the bet (well, being just 23 i'm now in a master degree, but it is mainly what i'm studying)

for the rest, i'm not going to continue to argue with you, since your tones are becoming inappropriate, IMHO.
I'm criticizing a company that got 3 + $ millions, and that didn't what promised in the right times. That is not terrible, but it might worth any complain.
You are just declaring my incompetence without any basis. and, still IMHO, that's inappropriate.

A little miffed that retailers are allowed to sell this stuff before they have all been delivered. The again there's eBay sellers anyway. Still looking forward to it.

good point: but probably they are just giving to the retailers the excess pieces not needed for the pledge packages. That's fair.

[eMills]

guess what: you lost the bet (well, being just 23 i'm now in a master degree, but it is mainly what i'm studying)

I lost half the bet. You still don't do it for a living yet, it seems.  Classroom=/=Real World.  I don't mean to insult you, so please accept my apologies if you are taking it that way.

I have worked at software companies and all the things Reaper did take time, and money, to accomplish.

for the rest, i'm not going to continue to argue with you, since your tones are becoming inappropriate, IMHO.
I'm criticizing a company that got 3 + $ millions, and that didn't what promised in the right times. That is not terrible, but it might worth any complain.

They may have gotten that money, but don't forget that both Kickstarter and Amazon take their cuts (to the tune of 10% in total if I remember correctly).  Then, they stock has to be paid for before they can even get it to send to you.  Also, don't forget that the KS was in part to purchase the machinery necessary to move Bones production in-house, which took a nice chunk of the total, I'm sure.

Money cannot make all the delays go away, necessarily.

You are just declaring my incompetence without any basis. and, still IMHO, that's inappropriate.

All I am getting at is that you seem to have little or no real-world experience with software development.  It is almost never clear cut and easy.

I am certainly not commenting to your competence, because I have no idea if you are or not.  Again, if that is how you are taking it, accept my apologies.  Not at all how it was intended.

A little miffed that retailers are allowed to sell this stuff before they have all been delivered. The again there's eBay sellers anyway. Still looking forward to it.

good point: but probably they are just giving to the retailers the excess pieces not needed for the pledge packages. That's fair.

They had a Retailer bundle, I think.  And it was either the base Vampire level or multiples of it.  Which likely made those some of the first rewards shipped.  The Retailers were backers of the project too, remember.  Limiting their sales based on the fact that not everyone has gotten their rewards would be similar to saying that those non-Retailers who have received their rewards cannot open them or use them until everyone else gets theirs.  It's fair as is, in my opinion.

Again Sangennaru: Mea culpa.  No insult intended.  Just debate.

~Eric

[beefcake]

I was more pointing out the fact that loads of people backed this and now others that didn't can get them first, even though its at lot more cost. Also they aren't available on reapers store so if you don't know who the retailers are you can't get hold of them. I know a quick google search would provide the answer to that. I don't really mind much at all, I have too much else to do.

[Sangennaru]

Money cannot make all the delays go away, necessarily.

absolutely agree: the point is not "you have money, you don't delay".
The point is: i don't care how big the business you had, i don't want big delays in any case. The fact that they had lots of orders is not an excuse, they should have thought at that before offering that many reward increases

They had a Retailer bundle, I think.  And it was either the base Vampire level or multiples of it.

yep. vampire packs are easy, probably all the people taking only a vampire pack have their bones now.

Again Sangennaru: Mea culpa.  No insult intended.  Just debate.

~Eric

Cheers Eric, sorry if i overreacted. Sometimes i'ts hard to feel the right tone here in the wild wild web.

[Centaur_Seducer]

@Sangennaru:
Not meaning to be rude. But you're only 23, and a student. When you've been in the world of business for 10+ years, your opinion on the issue will not be the same as you're having now. This isn't an issue of stuff being available and Reaper just rolling around in a big pile of dollar bills and getting rich on the interest while laughing at people asking for stuff.
There's a long chain of deliveries, and that increases the famous "fuck up" chance for each step that doesn't reach your door (Chinese factory - chinese delivery - international shipping - american delivery - people recieveing).
During the whole process they've constantly been pointing out the estimate delay, and what date people should get their stuff as an earliest estimate. They've also stated that those with "complicated orders" (in which we should assume that everyone not going for just Vampire level and Sophie) will be taken care of in the order of complication.
They also said this earlier with the KS. So I'm not understanding your point.
You had all information, decided to have a go with it, and still complain about it? Say what?
It's like buying luke warm chicken from a random street vendor in the slums of Rio, and then complain that you got sick afterwards.

[Sangennaru]

@Sangennaru:
Not meaning to be rude. But you're only 23, and a student. When you've been in the world of business for 10+ years, your opinion on the issue will not be the same as you're having now. This isn't an issue of stuff being available and Reaper just rolling around in a big pile of dollar bills and getting rich on the interest while laughing at people asking for stuff.
There's a long chain of deliveries, and that increases the famous "fuck up" chance for each step that doesn't reach your door (Chinese factory - chinese delivery - international shipping - american delivery - people recieveing).
During the whole process they've constantly been pointing out the estimate delay, and what date people should get their stuff as an earliest estimate. They've also stated that those with "complicated orders" (in which we should assume that everyone not going for just Vampire level and Sophie) will be taken care of in the order of complication.
They also said this earlier with the KS. So I'm not understanding your point.
You had all information, decided to have a go with it, and still complain about it? Say what?
It's like buying luke warm chicken from a random street vendor in the slums of Rio, and then complain that you got sick afterwards.

well, so you are saying that the deadline they put on march was obviously false? Wow. That changes perspective.

Probably because i'm only 23 (no offense taken ^^), but i'm the only one here that doesn't find normal that lies are normal in this kind of business?
Is it that strange to expect what offered from a deal? A random street vendor in Rio is known to be a man not to trust, but are you saying that it is the same for Reaper and anyone else on kickstarter? Wow.

I'm perfectly aware of the risks of enterprises, the thousand of "fuck up" variables and everything, but i'm also aware that it is part of the business.
Reaper actually didn't earn much money from this project, they invested all them in the moulds and production, but this is unrelated with the delays, i quite know that.

or are you saying that the delays are justified because it was a good deal for us?

Seriously, i'm not sure i'm getting your point.

[Centaur_Seducer]

They said that they would commence shipping in March. Not that all, almost, 18,000 backers should recieve a package in their post box the same day, or date.
Have they dug themselves a whole with this vendour, having totally miscalculated how popular this product actually would be? Yes. Can they be blamed for being naive? Yes. Can they be blamed for being dishonest with their communication? No.
My previous point was a bit unclear, I blame it on being a wee bit tipsy, but due to the fact that Reaper is a company run by hobbyist, it's a bit of a rocky road. Had they've been a large corporation, I'd be calling for the scalps on the first of April.

[Sangennaru]

They said that they would commence shipping in March. Not that all, almost, 18,000 backers should recieve a package in their post box the same day, or date.
Have they dug themselves a whole with this vendour, having totally miscalculated how popular this product actually would be? Yes. Can they be blamed for being naive? Yes. Can they be blamed for being dishonest with their communication? No.
My previous point was a bit unclear, I blame it on being a wee bit tipsy, but due to the fact that Reaper is a company run by hobbyist, it's a bit of a rocky road. Had they've been a large corporation, I'd be calling for the scalps on the first of April.

ok, in this case we quite agree: they are a little oversized, and they grew even more, and that was a mistake, even though not the worst ever seen.
As i said previously, i'm more upset for the hordes of people defending them saying "poor guys" than for what they actually did.

That said, i would have appreciated to be more notified about those containers. They knew about the last one delay one month ago, and revealed the news just now. That is not terrible, again, but not good either =)


anyway. i'll be DEADLY happy with my bunch of white goodies

[eMills]

well, so you are saying that the deadline they put on march was obviously false? Wow. That changes perspective.

Probably because i'm only 23 (no offense taken ^^), but i'm the only one here that doesn't find normal that lies are normal in this kind of business?

Which lies?  As has been pointed out, they said that they would START shipping in March, and they did just that.

Truly, I don't see the lies you are talking about.

~Eric

[Sangennaru]

Which lies?  As has been pointed out, they said that they would START shipping in March, and they did just that.

Truly, I don't see the lies you are talking about.

~Eric

ending on july? If it's not a lie, it's an omission. Not a big difference, afterall ^^"


anyway, i'm not accusing anyone of anything that bad. Just a simple complain =)

[Hatemonger]

ending on july? If it's not a lie, it's an omission. Not a big difference, afterall

Maybe it is a difference of language, or culture, but to me, there definitely is a big difference between telling a lie, and making a mistake.

You said earlier in the thread (to summarize), "Something like the pledge manager is simple to make; it should not take so long".

Several people have responded, "No, you are wrong. There are many factors involved, and you do not seem to have the experience to know this yet." Notice that no one said, "No, it does take that long, and so you are a liar."

Those things are not the same.

- H8

[Sangennaru]

Maybe it is a difference of language, or culture, but to me, there definitely is a big difference between telling a lie, and making a mistake.

You said earlier in the thread (to summarize), "Something like the pledge manager is simple to make; it should not take so long".

Several people have responded, "No, you are wrong. There are many factors involved, and you do not seem to have the experience to know this yet." Notice that no one said, "No, it does take that long, and so you are a liar."

Those things are not the same.

- H8

Ahaha, good point

But it's not me the one who had to do the pledge manager. If i was, and if i said something like this, and if i failed in my goal, i could be called liar.


Seriously, i really don't see why there's such a will to oppose to my criticism.They did a promise and they didn't keep it completely. That is a fact, and everyone can react as it please, but negating it and  make me look like the angry mob is quite out of the rail, don't you think? We're all gentleman here, so please keep it unpersonal.