Modern Imagi-nations and such like

[Conquistador]

That last "insurgent gang" - Oh My.     

New Meaning to Cheetah Girls...

Gracias,

Glenn

[Mad-eddy13]

http://forums.nationstates.net/nation=rosswood

Greetings, from President Dardin of The Allied States of Rosswood!

We are located in the Pacific Northwest, on islands located 250 miles off of the coast of North America. We gained independance from the US and Canada in 1955, as long as we helped fight Communism during the Cold War.


This is my Imagi-nation created for the Nationstates game. You may use my nation as much as you like for your games.

Soldiers of Rosswood in 2007:

Hey a fellow NS player, awesome.

[commissarmoody]

Yep, they use the X-box controllers on drones.

[MajorTalon]

Yep, they use the X-box controllers on drones.

Actually, they were used for the small, handheld drones that were going to used as part of the Future Force Warrior project for the US.

[commissarmoody]

Yep, used a them in the Stan and in training a few times before I got out. But i guess I should have been more specific, Drones is an all encompassing term.

[Hildred Castaigne]

I know the imagi-nation thing is all good fun.
But sometimes... it just seems a bit....

[Rob_bresnen]

Firstly- let me say that is a VERY funny clip- it made me laugh out loud.

I can see your point and personally I have kept all silly puns and such like at a good arm's length for that very reason.

My reason for developing an Imagi-nation (which is Zugando, a civil war torn West African state) was because I wanted to try out some modern era wargaming, inspired by call of duty MW3, but I felt very uncomfortable playing a game based around real, resent or even ongoing conflicts. somehow, and I can't even explain why, it felt 'wrong'- even though I am happy to game French and Indian wars, and other older conflicts.

Drawing inspiration from Call of Duty's fictional setting, and from the imaginary historical period in Very British Civil War, I could see that an Imagination would allow me to base a campaign in a modern world setting, and still give the right feel, while not offending my own strange sense of moral correctness.
For me, the pleasure of gaming a historical period is learning about the setting. Zugando has proven just as informative and interesting as a real world setting, and I have learned masses about modern weapons and equipment, post-colonial African politics, civil war, counter-terrorism, camouflage (I can tell the difference between Multicam and DPM!)

Anther advantage of a an imagi-nation is that no one can tell me that my army isn't correct, as it's my nation. This is often cited as one of the main reasons why people love the VBCW setting, and I am sure goes some what to explaining why imagi-nations are popular. If, for example, I manage to get a BTR cheep on eBay, I can always decide that it is a surplus ex-soviet vehical sold to the Zugandan rebels by an unscrupulous Russian arms dealer- who is going to argue?

So for me, at least, I find that the advantages of an imagi-nation outweigh any awkwardness. The key is to keep it as realistic as possible. No silly puns. No old stereotypes.

I hope this makes some sense to you.

[Hildred Castaigne]

Firstly- let me say that is a VERY funny clip- it made me laugh out loud.

I can see your point and personally I have kept all silly puns and such like at a good arm's length for that very reason.

My reason for developing an Imagi-nation (which is Zugando, a civil war torn West African state) was because I wanted to try out some modern era wargaming, inspired by call of duty MW3, but I felt very uncomfortable playing a game based around real, resent or even ongoing conflicts. somehow, and I can't even explain why, it felt 'wrong'- even though I am happy to game French and Indian wars, and other older conflicts.

Drawing inspiration from Call of Duty's fictional setting, and from the imaginary historical period in Very British Civil War, I could see that an Imagination would allow me to base a campaign in a modern world setting, and still give the right feel, while not offending my own strange sense of moral correctness.
For me, the pleasure of gaming a historical period is learning about the setting. Zugando has proven just as informative and interesting as a real world setting, and I have learned masses about modern weapons and equipment, post-colonial African politics, civil war, counter-terrorism, camouflage (I can tell the difference between Multicam and DPM!)

Anther advantage of a an imagi-nation is that no one can tell me that my army isn't correct, as it's my nation. This is often cited as one of the main reasons why people love the VBCW setting, and I am sure goes some what to explaining why imagi-nations are popular. If, for example, I manage to get a BTR cheep on eBay, I can always decide that it is a surplus ex-soviet vehical sold to the Zugandan rebels by an unscrupulous Russian arms dealer- who is going to argue?

So for me, at least, I find that the advantages of an imagi-nation outweigh any awkwardness. The key is to keep it as realistic as possible. No silly puns. No old stereotypes.

I hope this makes some sense to you.

Hey, Rob! Glad you enjoyed the clip.

All of your points there make perfect sense to me.
I myself am an imagi-nations gamer, so I was directing that at myself as much as anyone else. Once upon a time I used to set games in my fictional former-Communist kleptocracy.
It just gave me freedom to borrow as I pleased from the Yugoslav Wars and the War of Transnistria (not to mention the tensions between Armenia and Azerbaijan) without having to deal with the actual horror of those wars.
And much like you're African nation, I had a lot of freedom with equipment! Everything from WWII surplus to the newest of Western equipment turned up in those wars.
But upon reflection I probably could have voiced my concerns a bit more diplomatically. 

Last month I was putting together a presentation on Papa Doc Duvalier.
One thing that struck me was that if it hadn't been so brutal his time in power would have been farcical.
By fictionalising events we can take the sting out of the tail of these characters and still enjoy a setting.
So by all means, keep founding countries and focusing in the ridiculous! 
Like I said, it's all good fun in the end.

[Arlequín]

It is a thin line between parody and racism and can easily become a case of being 'hoisted by your own petard'. If you did a straight historical setting based on, say, the Congo, or Amin's Uganda, then that is fine. Base your Imagi-Nations on them, perhaps even only so far as changing names and flags and then you're possibly open to being accused of perpetuating stereotypes, depending on how you present it.

I've been there myself, added a few puns on names that I thought were quite clever and funny and then come back to it sometime later and realised how it must have read to someone else. As a result, I'm now more conscious of that aspect and I will just satirise or parody a situation, corporation or prominent leader, but my faceless imaginary inhabitants get somewhat more respect.

Like Rob though, I've found that my knowledge of contemporary-ish African politics has been brought on leaps and bounds, just by looking at real world examples for inspiration. It was the same for me with the work I did on VBCW... I learnt so much more about the real Inter-war period from that, than I otherwise would have done.

 

[carlos marighela]

It is a thin line between parody and racism and can easily become a case of being 'hoisted by your own petard'. If you did a straight historical setting based on, say, the Congo, or Amin's Uganda, then that is fine. Base your Imagi-Nations on them, perhaps even only so far as changing names and flags and then you're possibly open to being accused of perpetuating stereotypes, depending on how you present it.

Wise words indeed. The most well known example of this genre,  IMO, sadly falls on the wrong side of that divide.

[Arlequín]

I don't know, you tell me?  



I wouldn't even begin to try and tell anyone what is racist, tasteless, or what is not. We're all supposed to be adult-ish and hopefully we can each work out where the line should be drawn. I know where I stop and that's enough for me. If you ask yourself "Do I mean to be offensive?" and "Is anyone likely to be offended?", and can pass both those checks to your own satisfaction, then you're home clear.    

Personally I see nothing wrong with Kongaline, but that doesn't mean someone else won't. Puns are part of the fun, sure, and that what we're all about with Imagi-Nations... hopefully.

I had a tribe called the Hudu, who created an industry selling decorated spent shell casings to tourists. They had plentiful raw materials, due to living in a border region, where their land was constantly fought over by opposing neighbouring tribes. I described them as semi-nomadic, due to their fleeing every time there was a war and returning to find their villages burnt down.

I also had another tribe called the Nom-Nom (named after their war chant), who traditionally had a reputation for being cannibals. After being Christianised, it was a general joke amongst the other tribes, that they only ate human meat on Fridays and it had also had to be well-cooked.

The first example was made up, is generally inoffensive (maybe), perhaps a little tasteless, but could fit a few peoples of Africa, who have had the misfortune of being the 'buffer zone' between two enemies. The second I'd say is possibly offensive/racist, as it perpetuates a stereotype, yet is based on a real people (The Zande)... even down to the war chant.

[Rob_bresnen]

I should have been more careful with my comments in case I risk offending anyone. I never meant to suggest that using puns is racist. I merely meant that, in my own games I prefer to keep things 'accurate' (in so far as a fictional setting can be accurate). It's just feels better to me.

I think this is an interesting debate, and one that is worth having, but I am not sure it's what Red Orc intended when he started the thread. I hope no one minds the thread being side-tracked a little.

[Arlequín]

I didn't get the impression you meant all Rob... just that some could be, or might be otherwise offensive for a variety of reasons.

If Red Orc does object to the slight divergence, which I doubt he will, I can always split the thread to continue the discussion, but heaven forbid we should have a thread here that doesn't diverge at some point.

   

I find it interesting too, especially as I'm from the 'Carry On' generation, some of whom still have to be reminded from time to time, that words and phrases which we took for granted and used without thought, might be frowned upon these days.

[dadlamassu]

Morvalonga's President for Life, Saviour of the Nation, the Legendary, Bishop Moses Besquit announces that The Republic of Morvalonga has its own web pages:

http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Morvalonga/Morvalonga_Intro.htm

Be aware that there are many puns and stereotypes.

[dadlamassu]

And I will always use puns. My trouble is I use them everywhere!

Agreed and so do I.