Scavenge Skirmish Survive

[akodo]

you may want to check out the availability of dogs/wolves while you are at it.  It would be good to include rules for them but I think there are probably a lot out there already and turning the wolf into a husky dog by painting white on the bottom half would be quite easy (yes, tail curl may not be perfect)

I'd sure rather have 8 new people than 6 new people and 2 dogs if I can get 'dogs' anywhere

A quick check tells me Darksword Miniatures has 'Hunting wolf' 2 versions of Ghost, the other 4 kid's wolves
Reaper has Warg, Dire Wolf (pack of 2), and Wolf Pack ( pack of 3)

nice pack right here
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=23893.0

[akodo]

existing wolves would probably allow those who buy the first set to play with dogs right away.

How big of a board or table to you recommend with your basic game mechanic system?

[Arlequín]

Bill hooks! The one handed variety I mean. 

Machetes (as already done) and hatchets also have their fans in British-urban environments.

Akodo is pretty spot on to me regarding weapons... although there might be plenty of Enfields gathering rust in attics and sheds, but is their ammo readily available? It's been years since I've had to grace a gun shop and I don't have a clue if .303 is still on the safe shelves. Self-reloads is the way to go, but you still need the used cases to start with. .22 used to be common though.

[v_lazy_dragon]

but you still need the used cases to start with.

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured-article/abandoned-gun-factory-birminghamengland.html?utm_campaign=twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter
Looks to be the place to go if you need .303 cases!

A 2 handed bill-hook would also be pretty funky, and very british. I used to use one to cut the parents hedges

[Arlequín]

Bullets are relatively easy, at least making just lead ones (actually easier than casting your own figures)... FMJ is a different story. It's cases that are the problem, as they need to be machined. Added to this 'commercial' cases tend to stretch and cause jams in magazine-fed auto and semi-auto weapons, military spec cases are thicker. If re-enactors have them though, then they must still be quite common. 

Seems a good list of figures though, with a fair selection of weapons. 

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured-article/abandoned-gun-factory-birminghamengland.html?utm_campaign=twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter
Looks to be the place to go if you need .303 cases!

Blimey... is that the old Parker's works? (i.e. Parker Hale... no relation). The whole area was redeveloped in the mid to late sixties and they moved out of the old 'gun quarter' to the 'Bisley Works' at Moseley... the picture of Prince Charles looks about the right time.  It's about 200 yards from the West Mids Police HQ.  

From the comments and photos, it looks like they were boring surplus SMLE's to take a .22 sleeve and fitting new fore-stocks, something the company was famous for and to which they owed their reputation (they were apparently more accurate than new target rifles).

[akodo]

I think you are dead on with the 9mm being the common pistol cartridge.  The common revolvers would be 38, and in a pinch if you had empty cases of one plus a gun to fire it and loaded cases of another, it wouldn't be too hard to disassemble and reuse the projectile, powder, and primer with the cases that fit the gun you have.

I figure anyone with an old enfield in the attic probably has a few rounds of 303 around for it.  Reloading ammo is fairly easy.  Old cartridges running at lower pressures don't really have the same stretching problem, the 303 cases could be reloaded a TON.  The other poster is right about casting lead projectiles being easier than casting figures.  Garages often use lead weights to balance the tires on a car, so it would be a very easily scavangable material.  A jacket on the projectile is nice but not absolutely needed...especially if you were loading rounds being conservative with your supply of gunpowder.  Actually, as the 303 Brit was initially a blackpowder round it would be better than any others as it's pretty darn easy to make blackpowder gunpowder but a lot harder to make cordite or other types of modern 'smokeless powder'

If your survivor did have a good access to smokeless powder, you can make jackets for bullets out of 22 shell casings!

However, 303 Enfield, 7.62 NATO (308) hunting/target rifle, works out about the same.

What do you mean by 'unsighted?'  I hope you mean 'no scope' and still sculpt the standard front blade and rear V notch sights on.  These are generally called 'iron sights'

How would you distinguish the 22LR from other rifles?  Thinner barrel?  While something like a Lee-Enfield has a real distinct look it would be hard to make it clear that 'this guy's bolt action rifle is a 22!' on a 28mm model.

I guess if your rule set was built around having x points to build a team and better weapons cost more, you could include rules for a 22 rifle and then when you play you simply have to declare if your model is using a 22 rifle or a 'regular' rifle.

humm....wheels turning slowly....humm....

1d10, Range same as SMG or Shotgun whichever is longer (or maybe SLIGHTLY longer), -2 to casualty rolls.
This could possibly be balanced out with abundant ammo represented somehow in the game.  (You are going to have some sort of mechanism to represent that guys scrounging around after an ice-age caused by a mega-volcano are probably only going to have a handful of shells, right?)

Although I'd think you'd be better off leaving the 22 out.  Just go a generic hunting/target/old army rifle.

I do applaud the bill.  That's a perfect example of giving it a british feel.  Because of cultural difference I'd have not thought of a one-handed bill in 100 years.  (But that's okay, I can at least provide insight into firearms).  Plus in addition to a survivor actually finding a bill hook, that kind of tool/weapon would be very common simply from people finding a bit of metal about the right shape and sharpening it then attaching it to a handle.  Second only to kitchen knife + string + mop handle = spear for ease of making

I REALLY like your idea of multiple armed models.  I think the idea of the option to be unarmed to carry 2x is great, and I like the idea of giving the assembler the choice to make the model unarmed, revolver, or modern military rifle as they see fit.

It may even be worth doing the MP5 model that way too.


How do you see the kids being used in the rules?  Maybe a cheap guy who while unarmed can carry the same as a regular armed adult?

[v_lazy_dragon]

That figure list sounds good to me! The multi-arm choices definitely sound viable, as I for one don't really want too many figures with modern automatic weapons (easy enough to convert from some of the exisitng chechen ranges)

With regard to SMLEs in the attic and ammo, I don't know about that, but a mate at school had his Grand Dad's old Sten, with 2 magazines and no ammo that he'd found in one of their outbuildings.

[akodo]

The Lee Enfield appears to be a No 4 Mk 1.  Looks good.

M1 Carbine needs the mag to be a little thinner and longer.

I like the idea of the M1 carbine.  

Edit to add:

Mag = magazine, the proper term for what most folks call a 'clip'

[Arlequín]

Being the possessor of eight thumbs and two fingers, I'm reluctant to be critical of what others accomplish... but I'll just say that they need some more work. To save you some work, are there any of those that are available for 'licenced' use?



The M1 Carbine is better, but as Akodo says, the mag is almost half as much thinner and the barrel is a little short.



As an aside, these are what they were probably making in that ruined factory;

[akodo]

Okay, I understand now.

I still disagree that you are going to be able to make a 22 rimfire rifle distinguishable from a 30 caliber center fire rifle on a 28mm.

This is probably a good thing.  If it is indistinguishable, and rules for a 22 rimfire are included then all the players need to do is make it clear ahead of time.  And then when people use these models for other post-apocalypse (or possibly some pulp era adventures set in Canada, Norway, Sweden, Alaska, Russia, etc during the winter months) it will just be a regular center-fire rifle

I've dwelt on this from the other side of the fence too.  You can't really make a African Safari rifle look any different from a 30 caliber rifle either.  Go enough bigger to make it noticeable and you end up with something that appears to be a shotgun.  (Nothing like a 416 Rigby for dropping a giant mutant killer cyborg gorilla in it's tracks)

Akodo, my time with proper guns being in the early 1980s, I still think in terms of 'mag' (Clip sounds so gangster! ).

Good.  Stick with mags.

[Arlequín]

With regard to SMLEs in the attic and ammo, I don't know about that, but a mate at school had his Grand Dad's old Sten, with 2 magazines and no ammo that he'd found in one of their outbuildings.

In some old guys shed (read; Anderson Shelter) in Brum, were a couple of cases of P.14 rifles, a Lewis Gun, something like a Boys AT rifle, but apparently wasn't, a couple of cases of Mills bombs and various cans of ammo, grenade fuses, flares and assorted stuff. He'd apparently been something in the Home Guard and by 1986 had decided that the threat of invasion was probably past and that he could stand down.

Arlequin, please don't fear to be critical: I value your knowledge and critiques (heck my War of the Roses project wouldn't be what has grown to be without your opinions steering me!  . ).  

Don't blame me for that... I just read a book once.  


I've lost track of where we started with guns and stuff, but... generalising works for me. A weapon's value lies in the ability of its user, regardless of the size of the bullet. Speaking for myself, I'm just as wary of being hit by a .22 round as I am by a 7.62mm, even though I know the difference and their capabilities.

Go too deep into all this and you have to consider whether the ammo is factory-made or home-made, then what propellant has been substituted and so on. I always liked the Two Hour Wargames's differentiation between 'pistol' and 'big-ass pistol' etc. So what you're going for pretty much covers it for me.

'Showing' the difference between weapon calibres in 28mm, as has been said, is hard. The last two pics above are .303 rifles converted to .22, which illustrates this. They aren't uncommon either as they were produced in their tens of thousands between the end of WW1 up to the late 1950's, as both 'trainers' and civilian target rifles.

I like the M1 Carbine though and that, along with (correct me if I'm wrong U.S. people) the Ruger Mini-14, are still quite common weapons in private hands in the US. The Ruger (along with its AC-556 military counterpart) was not even uncommon within the UK, prior to the ban on semi-autos. Both the RUC and one or two mainland police forces used them back in the day, so I'd be surprised if there weren't a few still knocking about here even.    

[commissarmoody]

The Mini-14 is still popular, but mostly with the above 40 set. ARs seem to be all the rage, at the moment.
But if they go ahead with the ban, I foresee a resurgence of older style rifles to get around it.
I like them both personally,

[Captain Blood]

Gosh, this is getting technical... 
Just give them all sticks Steve.

[Arlequín]

Gosh, this is getting technical... 
Just give them all sticks Steve.

Pointed or just how they come? Then there's a subtle difference between the effectiveness of Oak, versus Ash or Pine. Some guys might have Ebony... which packs some weight...

[commissarmoody]

Are we talking heavy sticks or pointy sticks?