The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[Hawkeye]

I think it's pretty normal to use the term "Ireland" to refer to the whole island, Cubs, without causing any discord. Nobody said anything about the republic specifically. I'm Irish - grew up and went to school and college in Dublin - and I don't think there was any confusion between me and Vermis about what we were talking about. Ireland - all of it - had terrible economic problems in the eighties, and it looks like the same thing is happening now. Obviously, that has an impact on leisure activities and luxury items (which wargaming items are, obviously), but my point was that Ireland in the early eighties hadn't yet had an initial opportunity to have those sorts of shops around. It (the island of Ireland) had to wait for quite a while for that, I think. Then when they appeared, the economy tanked again, so a lot of the specialty shops fell on hard times. It all makes for interesting sales venues/opportunities for tabletop games, except of course that now we have the internet.

[Edit] Actually, to be more precise, when I initially talked about Ireland, I guess I was referring to what I know (the Republic), and then Vermis confirmed that the situation was the same in Northern Ireland. There was nothing political to the discussion, in any case.

I hadn't realized that FNAC once had these sort of items for sale. Interesting. A bit like the Virgin Megastore having them. Games Workshop's sales team were clearly on the ball in the last decade of the twentieth century!

[Vermis]

[Edit] Actually, to be more precise, when I initially talked about Ireland, I guess I was referring to what I know (the Republic), and then Vermis confirmed that the situation was the same in Northern Ireland. There was nothing political to the discussion, in any case.

I wonder if it's not so much a matter of politics or economy, but awareness. Maybe it's because I grew up in a more rural area, but I don't remember seeing any GW products in shops around here (apart from that weird 'White Dwarf' thing in occasional newsagents), and on rare trips to bigger shopping towns I was more interested in the TMNT action figures and later, the computer games.
I have a feeling the 'average person on the street' awareness of any wargaming at all might be less than across the Irish Sea. Maybe it isn't, but if it is, it might be because of the only two, lonely GW shops in Belfast and Dublin, if you consider GW high street presence* to be important to introductions to wargaming. And that might be because Belfast and Dublin could be the only two population centres big enough to support GW shops.

(Man, Belfast still seems huge and sprawling to me. Imagine how I felt when I went to Birmingham for Games Day and London for Salute.)

*Mind you, despite being in the big, flashy Castlecourt shopping centre, I dunno if GW Belfast has much of a presence, tucked away in at the back. I'd been to Castlecourt dozens of times before realising it was there. And on that day, Trish Morrison felt an inexplicable chill...

(Although, to combine politics and economy, I agree that during GW's heyday in the 80s and 90s, Belfast had a lot on it's plate. I won't say too much more than that.)

[wolfen]

I wonder if it's not so much a matter of politics or economy, but awareness. Maybe it's because I grew up in a more rural area, but I don't remember seeing any GW products in shops around here (apart from that weird 'White Dwarf' thing in occasional newsagents), and on rare trips to bigger shopping towns I was more interested in the TMNT action figures and later, the computer games.
I have a feeling the 'average person on the street' awareness of any wargaming at all might be less than across the Irish Sea. Maybe it isn't, but if it is, it might be because of the only two, lonely GW shops in Belfast and Dublin, if you consider GW high street presence* to be important to introductions to wargaming. And that might be because Belfast and Dublin could be the only two population centres big enough to support GW shops.

(Man, Belfast still seems huge and sprawling to me. Imagine how I felt when I went to Birmingham for Games Day and London for Salute.)

*Mind you, despite being in the big, flashy Castlecourt shopping centre, I dunno if GW Belfast has much of a presence, tucked away in at the back. I'd been to Castlecourt dozens of times before realising it was there. And on that day, Trish Morrison felt an inexplicable chill...

(Although, to combine politics and economy, I agree that during GW's heyday in the 80s and 90s, Belfast had a lot on it's plate. I won't say too much more than that.)

I spent a lot of my free time between 1995 and 2000 in the GW in Belfast. The main reason I knew it was there is that we used that entrance and walked through castle court everytime we went into town. Once I discovered it I was glad that I could get off the bus on the way home from school in the city center, go to GW for a bit, then walk out the back to North Street and get the next bus the rest of the way home.

[Hawkeye]

All that makes sense, although initially I was talking about the eighties, long before GW started its chain of shops (or at least long before a GW shop arrived in Ireland). I do remember that by the time the GW store arrived in Dublin, just on the north side of the Halfpenny Bridge, I was no longer doing any tabletop gaming, of course. Perfect timing. The high street presence thing is a whole side of this that has its own mysteries to it too, of course. But my teenage years - which were enormously influenced by roleplaying games and early fantasy wargaming - were long before the GW high street presence, and I wonder if that is one of the reasons I don't have the pretty nasty attitude toward all things Games Workshop that I often see displayed in this thread. My memories of Warhammer and miniatures all have to do with a group of five good friends who are to this day - thirty and even thirty-five years later - STILL my very good friends, in no small part because of the gaming through which we bonded when we were adolescent males who didn't have any idea how to bond with their friends. Again, no matter what GW is like now, how can I be anything but grateful for what they've done for me?

(I can almost feel a "What has Games Workshop ever given us?" Monty Python-esque rant on the way!)

[Cubs]

Actually, to be more precise, when I initially talked about Ireland, I guess I was referring to what I know (the Republic), and then Vermis confirmed that the situation was the same in Northern Ireland.

Gotcha. Sorry, my bad.

[Argonor]

(I can almost feel a "What has Games Workshop ever given us?" Monty Python-esque rant on the way!)

Nope, not from me. GW gave us here in Denmark the first easily accessible commercially available table-top miniatures games, that were, to some extent, the sole reason that some gaming Clubs came into existence (there was also that D&D/AD&D thing, but as RPGs could be easily played at one participant's home, they weren't the main factor).

[Hawkeye]

That's what I'm getting at too, Argonor. Somebody unhappy with GW will start by asking "what have they ever given us?" expecting everybody to agree with them that we have nothing to thank GW for. But then instead people start to add items to a really long list of great stuff they've given us (as I started to do in a couple of my previous posts). Sorry there seems to be some misunderstanding - I think we actually agree with each other. First Edition Warhammer. Early White Dwarf. 'Eavy Metal painting articles. Rogue Trader. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. Plastic multi-part minis. Mordheim. Blood Bowl. Necromunda. Space Hulk. Citadel acrylic paints (and washes!). Early Chaos Warriors. Early Eldar. Sisters of Battle. Oh, their games like Battlecars, the Judge Dredd RPG, so many things. Jesus, that's a pretty good track record! I mean, they're not perfect, but my god, look what they've given us. I may never play a currently-in-production GW game again, and I may scratch my head about their business and pricing decisions, and so on, but I will always be grateful for what they've done for the modern tabletop gaming hobby, and for how that shaped my teenage years. What more can you ask for from a company? I know this thread mostly seems to be about bashing GW, but I can't  bring myself to do it, even at the same time that I can't bring myself to be interested in anything they produce anymore.

[Modhail]

I think that is part of the reason many of us are so unhappy with GW: They've done so much to grow and advance wargaming in the past and have made good products, grown settings we have really come to care about. But now they are making a shambles of it. They're squandering their legacy and for me, someone who still hasn't fully left the GW worlds behind, my reminisces and current project are tainted by the companies current shenanigans and attitude. At least, that's my reason for being annoyed with/critical of GW and shooting off the occasional cynical comment. I want GW to be good again and reclaim their creative/pioneer position, but they stubbornly keep doing what seems to be the opposite.

[Tactalvanic]

Absolutely agree.

GW gave many of us an entry into  imaginative, detailed fantasy worlds, providing entertainement and escapism. Not all of them were GWs but others via licence. even before they started creating their own.

Their contribution cannot be understated in any regard, to UK gaming hobbies and other countries beyond that.

The sadness and gripe, and complaint, is in their more modern and recent historical behaviour and attitudes towards what is their livelihood -  their customers.

They have managed to sail their business through the hobby for many years, and hopefully will continue for many more, but that does not stop us wanting/wishing them to behave in a, well, frankly better way towards their customer base - existing and future.

[olyreed]

Dont know if this is of interest to anyone, looks like it has a lot of potential, Chain of Command meets 40k

http://playingtheodds.com.au/chain-of-command-warhammer-40k/

[Hawkeye]

No, I understand that, Modhail and Tactalvanic. It just seems to me that the vitriol often seems to be far in excess of what might be expected. I prefer to be happy about what they gave us, rather than bitter about the fact that thirty years later (and more) they're not able to continue doing what they once did. Is it disappointing - I guess it is, but in some ways it's to be expected. I guess what I mean is that the intensity of hatred that's often directed at GW is such that it's difficult to imagine that the person expressing it ever felt anything positive for the company, or its games.

[Tactalvanic]

Valid point, I forget sometimes that the discussions/comments and viewpoints in other parts of the interwebs get a bit... extreme.

Amply demonstrated by some reactions to the destruction of the old world, here comes AOS.

I  was,  myself sad, but not fussed, still can play - some other people - well - went a bit nuts.

But that's people.  Some can be greatly impacted by something so much that like/dedication, love even, becomes serious hate..

I am not happy with them and will rib GW happily, but I am not burning my collection or plotting the demise of executive staff members etc.

But that can happen with any hobby or even thing -  Mattel and the new Barbie/s, I bet there are some extreme reactions to that as well that will boggle the mind in their intensity 

In the end they are just models/toys/figures etc - but I can see kids having to take their barbie doll to the shops now to make sure they get the right size clothes/accessories.. Maybe they will install special tiny changing rooms in the toy shops or something?

Still at least we are mostly stable in our eccentricities around here. Now where did I put my medication?

[Cubs]

Same as anything, I think the greatest emotional reaction came from those who felt they had invested the most in the company and then felt betrayed by the direction they took.

[Elbows]

I also think we need to remember that there is an entire class of hobbyist/gamer who solely concentrates on one hobby product: 40K or Fantasy.  While a lot of people play a number of games, run a bunch of systems, have numerous projects - there is a large crowd out there who buy one game, stick to it, and are solely invested in that game.  If your entire gaming/hobby world was Warhammer Fantasy, I can understand the anger/angst/spite etc.

I know a load of folks who owned/collected 40K and absolutely nothing else...didn't even play other games (hell, they may not have known other games existed!).  Some people base their entire hobby around attending conventions/tournaments based around their chosen game.  For those types, it would have been a pretty big deal for it to all go up in smoke.

[cutp]

all: soooo many good points

a little sad, still have unpainted GW stuff to paint, still love it [Mordheim!], moved on to other stuff, still go back to Mordheim time to time [still have BFG, WFB, advanced heroquest, 40K etc in garage but inactive]

still like GW & FW sculpts and [old] fluff...but haven't bought in forever

like newer IPs from other companies too

me now: strange aeons, mordheim, x-wing, imperial assault, zombicide black plague, etc

hoping everyone still loving playing games and creating content/product for the games u love...painting, mods, terrain etc.

is GW ex-boyfriend/girlfriend[-ish]?

more disappointed than mad

curious about the specialist re-boot...