Eastern Front c.1914 - update 29 Oct

[janner]

Dragoons are not were armed lances. This "Horseback infantry".

Although preserving a dual function for longer than other European armies, Russian dragoons had not served as mounted infantry for some time. Indeed, dismounted cavalry action had been discouraged in the Russian Army since 1870.

All the references I have consulted describe them as equipped (trained and employed) in the same manner as lancers and hussars. Do you have something authoritative that indicates otherwise?

Thanks again  

Edit. To pick up on your additions, I understand that all regular cavalrymen were issued bayonets, which were routinely fixed to the scabbard. I raised this point earlier as a flaw in using the Copplestone figures for regular horsemen.

On regular cossacks being unable to ride with the carbine on the other shoulder, can you explain? I understand why that would be the case for anyone using traditional cossack tack, i.e. Irregular units...

[cuprum]

Dragoons - received full cavalry training, but also had and infantry training.

I am using Russian literature. Surname Zvegintsev familiar to you? Book Deryabin "Cavalry of the Russian Imperial Guard"?





I will answer your questions tomorrow - we already have 01.30 night 

[janner]

Many thanks Cuprum 

[cuprum]

Even in the Guard Cossacks had horse harnesses the Asian sample. And, accordingly, wearing rifles as well as any other Cossacks.

By the way, the Caucasian Cossacks also had no spears.

All the Cossacks - irregular cavalry. They have served on a private horses in their own private uniforms. From the government they received only the rifle, everything else purchased at his own expense. For this, they have great perks from the state.

[cuprum]

We continue?

Only dragoons had quite a long rifle and bayonet. The rest of the cavalry did not have bayonets.

[janner]

Sorry cuprum, I was distracted by other tasks today. Thank you for your responses.

For the uniforms and equipment of the German Army, I am able to rest on Dr Jürgen Kraus's superb monograph, which went through the usual peer review process and has been well received by other experts in the field.

I don't want to judge them by their covers, so might I ask if your sources carry similar academic weight?

I only ask because some of your answers do not match sources I have already consulted, such as Bruce W. Menning.

[janner]

My particular problem is the background to dragoons receiving different equipment and training from other line regiments. As you no doubt know, in 1882 all line cavalry regiments were converted to dragoons.  Those regiments which were already dragoons remained so, but the imperial guard were largely left untouched.

In the aftermath of Russo-Japanese War, in 1909 the line cavalry had their old titles restored and new uniforms issued, but the information I have to hand is that regiments remained otherwise identically equipped and trained to dragoons.

[cuprum]

I offer my apologies, janner. You're right.

All Russian cavalry, except Caucasian Cossacks were armed with pikes. All privates cavalrymen had to scabbard swords for the bayonet mount.

Hussar pants: for a 5 Hussar Regiment - black; for 11 Hussar Regiment - dark blue, to the Guard Hussar Regiment - dark blue or crimson (could be worn both of them - but always of the same color at all); for other army hussars permitted maroon pants.

The main theme of my interests - the Civil War in Russia. Is why I transferred some of its reality for the period of the First World War. In all my books it described correctly -  I was not sufficiently attentive.

[janner]

I wasn't sure whether the error lay with Menning, my reading, or elsewhere. So thank you for the clarification, cuprum.

I appreciate now that the Russian regular cavalry had dropped much of its finery on the eve of WWI. So caps and smocks would work fine for most units, if not all units.

The one unit I am not sure about is uhlans. Do you know if they retained the czapka or switched to caps as well. I'm seen photos of senior officers in a czapka, but generals are prone to doing their own thing!

I am even further out of my comfort zone being a medievalist by profession - all be it part time. So I'm delighted and grateful for any help I can get 

[cuprum]

Alas. It was a general order for the entire army on the introduction of the field uniforms of khaki. This order was issued in 1912 and the entire Russian army in two years has had time to move to a new field uniforms. Including Uhlans.

[janner]

Well that's good news in terms of miniatures. The same range could cover hussars, uhlans, and dragoons.

As you wrote, the Copplestones aren't far off. If he were to redo the bridle, change the sabre hilt, and add a bayonet to the scabbard, we'd be pretty much there.

Alternatively, maybe Brigade or Musketeer could step up 

[armchairgeneral]

Alas. It was a general order for the entire army on the introduction of the field uniforms of khaki.

Any suggestions on what paints to use for figures? My Osprey book (the extent of my research so far  ) states it had more of a green tinge to it rather than say the British khaki although I appreciate there would be much variation.

[cuprum]

If I'm not mistaken, at the Brigade only Caucasian Cossacks. And what figures Russian cavalry produces Musketeer?

Once again, I looked Copplestone figures. I think is best for the conversion, will approach Bolshevik cavalry (figures in forage caps).

Any suggestions on what paints to use for figures? My Osprey book (the extent of my research so far  ) states it had more of a green tinge to it rather than say the British khaki although I appreciate there would be much variation.

Russian uniform had under the rules of the color "green peas". But during the war, the accuracy of the compliance of the color decreased. In addition, as a result of washing and exposure to ultraviolet light color of the fabric quickly turned pale.

[janner]

If I'm not mistaken, at the Brigade only Caucasian Cossacks. And what figures Russian cavalry produces Musketeer?

My post was more about firms that might be persuaded to add to their ranges than existing figures, hence 'step up'. As armchairgeneral suggested earlier, Battle Honours are worth a looksee. 

[janner]

Talking of toys,

Regimental command stand for 41st Infantry Regiment 'von Boyen' (5th East Prussian) c.1914,



http://jannersjaunt.blogspot.dk/2016/10/imperial-germans-x.html