(KICKSTARTER) Prodos Games Aliens/Predators: Recent developments pp.35ff

[Cergorach]

I see these mails/messages and all I really read is: We're not a very smart/capable company.

To be fair, if you don't take risks, you won't get anywhere. Especially in this hobby business.

I don't know about the rest of you, but looking at producing stuff in this hobby niche, selling it, taxes, time, risks, etc. Comparing that to a life of an IT freelancer, from a financial point of view it's the smartest move to stay out of the niche hobby. But we're all nerds here and the financial equation competes with our hobby addictions...

Good business people that are willing to enter the hobby business with a desirable product are few and far between. Most of those awesome small companies are run by folks that earn very little compared to the average customer that buys the product.

I have to say that Prodos makes an interesting product (although I hate resin). They have good designs and make products that are often attractive to me. Their new production method is extremely interesting, especially to other small companies and if what's being said is true, then they are a very good company to business with as another company.

What they did wrong imho is:
#1 The obfuscation
#2 Launching this before AVP and Demigods Rising were completely delivered (99% of the people having it in their hands, NurgleHH will never see his AVP ;-)
#3 Making this a big KS, thus making it a bigger risk for us. (having everything was costing me ~$300)

[CptJake]

I'll just point out the following from a KS email from Prodos dated 16 Oct 2015:

In fact, many companies are running KS after KS just to fulfil their previous KS. This is the case for us as well, we initially went with AvP on KS to get everything straightened up with Warzone and to make sure that we won’t have to come back on KS again, ever. Not that we don't like Kickstarter, but we don't think it's a great way to continue our business.

And now we see a new KS.

And we know AvP as a project is underfunded to the point they cannot complete it.

I'm sure it is just a coincidence that they chose to run a KS for LOAD after swearing off KS projects...

 

[Elbows]

To be fair, if you don't take risks, you won't get anywhere. Especially in this hobby business.

I don't know about the rest of you, but looking at producing stuff in this hobby niche, selling it, taxes, time, risks, etc. Comparing that to a life of an IT freelancer, from a financial point of view it's the smartest move to stay out of the niche hobby. But we're all nerds here and the financial equation competes with our hobby addictions...

Good business people that are willing to enter the hobby business with a desirable product are few and far between. Most of those awesome small companies are run by folks that earn very little compared to the average customer that buys the product.

I have to say that Prodos makes an interesting product (although I hate resin). They have good designs and make products that are often attractive to me. Their new production method is extremely interesting, especially to other small companies and if what's being said is true, then they are a very good company to business with as another company.

What they did wrong imho is:
#1 The obfuscation
#2 Launching this before AVP and Demigods Rising were completely delivered (99% of the people having it in their hands, NurgleHH will never see his AVP ;-)
#3 Making this a big KS, thus making it a bigger risk for us. (having everything was costing me ~$300)

I never said the business was easy.  I think there is little contention here that Prodos has piss poor business acumen at this time.  Now, in fairness, Kickstarter explicitly states that the risk is put on the backers.  My argument is pretty simple: if they can't deliver what they've stated they will deliver - they need to ship everything they can and shut their business.  It's obviously something they can't properly manage or manipulate while making a profit and delivering goods.

Time to move on to something else.

[Elk101]

#2 Launching this before AVP and Demigods Rising were completely delivered (99% of the people having it in their hands, NurgleHH will never see his AVP ;-)

I really hope he does.

[NurgleHH]

I really hope he does.

Wie will See. In the Moment I have Hope, the Status is Partly send and I now knew some backers geting their stuff. So, let's wait and drink a cup of tea...

[Agis]

Received my "Your AvP Kickstarter order is now being partially sent " today also!

At the moment I keep everything crossed that I can cross!

[NurgleHH]

Received my "Your AvP Kickstarter order is now being partially sent " today also!

At the moment I keep everything crossed that I can cross!

This is another good news, would be very sad if we loose all the stuff. So, do you still work on some rule-additions for ViDe Scifi?

[Agis]

This is another good news, would be very sad if we loose all the stuff. So, do you still work on some rule-additions for ViDe Scifi?

At the moment I am creating/ writing a new ruleset for squad level WW II.
(Based on ViDe)
You play with only 6-10 infantry minis per side!

The idea is to have a generic game that just let you play with some nice new minis and not having to paint 40+ minis.


If it is well enough accepted I will create a SF version of it.

[Argonor]

At the moment I am creating/ writing a new ruleset for squad level WW II.
(Based on ViDe)
You play with only 6-10 infantry minis per side!

The idea is to have a generic game that just let you play with some nice new minis and not having to paint 40+ minis.

Sounds very good to me. The concept of having to paint a company's worth of minis to be able to play (not to mention often having to paint both sides of a conflict, for the lack of opponents to play) has left many rulesets sitting on my dusty bookshelf!

[harleyface]

Still nothing for me....

[Sgt. Scream]

I really would like Fox to finally sign off on those Unleashed tabletop rules for AvP... 

[Cait Sidhe]

So interesting update from Prodos... I mean Archon regarding customer protection to try and assuage fears...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1915792245/load-the-board-game/posts/1591907

Under Polish accounting law there is no definition of pledge, hence, your pledge must be accounted as sales or pre-sale, meaning that once Archon issue an invoice to you (generated from pledge manager) you are automatically gaining Customer Rights, as end customer, on your purchase.

Wonder if all that protection is retroactive for AvP backers too...?  

[6milPhil]

Prodos took payment as a UK firm though didn't they?

[CptJake]

So interesting update from Prodos... I mean Archon regarding customer protection to try and assuage fears...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1915792245/load-the-board-game/posts/1591907

Wonder if all that protection is retroactive for AvP backers too...?  

Alien vs Predator The Miniatures Game
22 January 2015 ·
Hello Everyone,

We are very busy behind the scenes getting AvP ready to ship, so as you can imagine Prodos Games have been very focused on that task. We know that communication has been lacking from us and for this we apologize.

We want to address a few points today for clarity sake.

Prodos Games still have the Aliens vs Predator license. There is no licensing dispute, Kickstarter will not let us choose to keep the page down unless it says there is. So this is why the page still states that there is a dispute.

We cannot set a specific release date, this has been requested by Fox until the product is fully approved and ready to be finally manufactured. We are not allowed to ship any components until the entire project has been approved. This is the nature of a licensed product we are working very hard to get everything finished.

We cannot offer refunds, as the project is a Kickstarter project and the nature of Kickstarter is that it funds the investment required to create the product. Accidents happen and they are currently being resolved. This is how Kickstarters work sometimes a project gets behind, we are behind, but will be fulfilling pledges as soon as we can.

Please be civil in your comments and questions, any aggressive comments will not be tolerated. We understand people are upset, but remain calm we are in the final stretch!

Prodos Games will endeavor to answer all questions whenever possible in 3-5 days from this point forward. I have been allocated to spend a large amount of my time to monitor and answer your questions on this page. We recognize that communication is very important. I can assure you that this will happen going forward and will answer what I can to the best of my ability; with that said sometimes we cannot share everything because something’s are just out of our control.

Thanks
The Prodos Games Team

Yeah, Jarek and crew will say what they need to say before they have your money.   I bet if LOAD goes sideways Jarek and crew encourage you to take up the issue of your refund with Load Board Game of Chicago, IL (the company KS lists as the creator).

[NurgleHH]

It is a miracle! Today, with a small problem with UPS, I became a big parcel with the biggest part of my pledge. I opened it, saw these beautiful miniatures and was surprised by the quality. Outstanding quality, full of details and clever casted. The gaming tiles are full color and look nice. It looks like a space hulk with original Aliens and Predators. The result of the tortures Kickstarter is absolutely better than expected. For the future I hope Prodos learned something and will act in the future better... Their castings and models are outstanding.

And special thanks to Agatha for the service I expected since 2013. Great work.