Interesting spell effects?

[YPU]

I have been tinkering away at a skirmish wizard gang warfare rule-set for a while, think mordheim in hogwards. Nothing big and I doubt it will ever see the light of day beyond a free download it at all but its entertaining to have my mind mill on on slow days.

Anyhow, I want the spells to be interesting and quirky rather then generic. I rather every spell to have interesting effects and side effects rather then by a list of generic effects.

So, I put this question to the fine gentlemen of LAF, what interesting spell effects can you name or come up with?

For instance, some of you might be familiar with the children's board game "The aMAZEing Labyrinth" which allows you to change the layout of the board in interesting ways. This would make for an interesting spell or even entire school of magic! The changing layout of the castle is a staple of the harry potter mythos and would fit in perfectly in my game. I still need to think of a good name for this branch of magic tough, castelomancy just doesn't sound arcane enough. 

[doowopapocalypse]

Illusionists, I think, would be an interesting area to delve into. I'm working on an illusionist as a Mordheim hired sword.
You can have spells about spooky mists, body doubles, confusion. And my personal favorite, convincing the enemy they are covered with bees.

[YPU]

Aye the field of illusions is bursting with interesting effects indeed, I hadn't considered the covered in creepy crawly stingy things options yet. Good one!

[Hobbit]

What about something based on manipulating and controlling the 4 elements?

[Elbows]

Another thing to consider...the ability to combine spells (which should be difficult but the end results could be spectacular).  This would, however, complicate everything! 

[Gibby]

This is an interesting thread. I have often thought that magic in games is relegated to an exciting sounding missile weapon of various colours. For those of us who don't mind a bit of book keeping, I think magic has great potential for things like temporary stat changes, equipment destruction, that kind of thing. Summoning is another one that should get used more. Even if a wizard just quickly summons a little imp to keep an enemy busy, it would give him time to shoot the crossbow for a bit longer...

[YPU]

For further info, this might well become the game I start bringing to cons where such things are normal.

Hobbit, those are, naturally, already in the list. However I am fishing for things beyond fireballs and walls of earth/fire/ice. See the power to create ice sheets for enemies to slip on, now that is a far more interesting power then any of the above.

Elbows, indeed the combining of spells would give that wacky flavour I am looking for. And like you mention it might just end up becoming far to complicated but its worth looking in to. Mayhaps I should give every spell a 'component" section describing what it does when used in a combo spell... ideas indeed! I had at first thought about having a more free form spell creation system but I realized that this would in fact end with most players just doing boom spells and a few simple buffs. I want every spell to have a bit of flavour, more effect then just damage, that's what the normal weapons would be for. However if the combination system were transplant that flavourful part over more so then the straight up damage part, we might get cooking...

Gibby, glad you think so! I completely agree as well, many a game, especially the more generic ones tend to have blasty magic, defensive magic if your lucky and necromancy because its cool and that's it.

I plan to give every model a stat card the way you see in many a skirmish game these days. (it helps with the model for model activation) So the book keeping is accounted for. Stuff like potential equipment destruction or at least disarmament becomes very potent once a campaign system is introduced!

Summoning, naturally! Also bound critters as I find there should be a difference. You mind control a troll to your side and train it, but you summon an imp for a few seconds head start like you say. Actually I was thinking mostly large summons before so thanks for the throwaway idea, hadn't really considered that. The variety of monsters available and variations thereupon might fill a large part of the rules. (or perhaps become a sepperate set of advance rules) At first I was considering a completely free from building system, but like above many players tend to go for boring straight up bruisers rather then flavourful with those. For now I am thinking stereotypes with options The Brute type might have an option for horns to become a minotaur, regeneration for trolls and a without it might serve as a orge, for instance. Still early days on that, I want to hammer out the general magic first before I start on the more specialized branches!


Actually I have some very rough draft idea's kicking around on the "factions" and variations off those that could be played, I could do a short write-up on that if anybody is interested? (queue crickets and tumble-weed)

[FramFramson]

Transmogrification spells with unpredictable effects.

[Vauln]

YPU, castlemancy would not cut it for me either. The idea is interesting, how 'bout using architect as a root word? Archimancer, Archimancy, Archimorphing, Archimorphos? In the cartoon Full Metal Alchemist there is some interesting variations on this idea too, changing rooms around, walls popping up, etc. I have always had a small fascination with 'word of power' and how they work in magic, arcane or divine.

[YPU]

YPU, castlemancy would not cut it for me either. The idea is interesting, how 'bout using architect as a root word? Archimancer, Archimancy, Archimorphing, Archimorphos? In the cartoon Full Metal Alchemist there is some interesting variations on this idea too, changing rooms around, walls popping up, etc. I have always had a small fascination with 'word of power' and how they work in magic, arcane or divine.

Full Metal Alchemist is a good example of what I am aiming for, nearly every attack is flavourful and has the side effect of permanently changing the battlefield.

Right now I am toying with the name: Moliomancy using the latin for "to build" as a root word. It sounds nice tough to me at least it isn't particularly indicative of its function. Necromancy and pyromancy are clear in what they are about moliomancy not so much. It does roll of the tongue nicely for me at least, (but I am dutch so wondering now native English speakers feel about that)

Words of power, you know I like the idea of power in words, and true names and the like but a word of power has a very clear function. Power word stun or kill does one thing and has no flavourful side effects like I talked about. Maybe if they need to be written down or something, or having some other interesting game mechanic that makes sense...


To give another example. In the HP games the spell "flipendo" is used all the time. Its a basic blast attack that knocks the opponent back. By having that as your standard low level attack power even basic "grunts" (junior students more likely) have an interesting battlefield influence as they shift the enemy around with their one spell. Potentially creating unexpected situations which ad that flavour I was talking about. In many a game which has knockback rules have I found that that few inches were exactly enough to prevent, or even help a model from reaching his intended target this turn. A lowly junior student knocking the big bad necromancer away from that artifact of power at the last moment with a measly low level spell and saving the day, now that's the kind of game I would be taking about for a while!

[Hobbit]

Hi, sorry I was in a real hurry hence my one line offering. I was thinking of something along the lines of using two part descriptors as per the Ars Magica system - ie an element and an effect (and, of course, players are required to call these out and get bonuses for being over dramatic).

Elements being opposite to one another being used to cancel each other out and, exactly as you suggested, things like ice sheets to make opponents slip, perhaps you could use ice to create a temporary bridge, manipulating earth to create a pillar to stand on and give an elevated position, shift earth to undermine a building.

In a similar way perhaps you could use the 4 humours or temperaments (sanguines, choleric, melancolic and phlegmatic)to effect people (perhaps these could also be used to help define characters). And then add in a touch of alchemy and the suppossed magical properties of various spices...

[aktr]

A few ideas for random spells:

Horrific Stench – makes one object (or person) emit the most horrendous stench imaginable. Cast on a rock, and throw it at the enemy

Unbuckle – it’s hard for a knight to charge you when all the fastenings on his suit of armour suddenly come undone

Object of Desire – make someone fall madly in love (or lust) with an intimate object

Badger Confusion – Makes the target think they are a badger

Larger then Life – makes someone think they are gigantic in size, they are not they just think they are

10 tons – makes something weigh 10 tons, cast on someone’s hat for hilarious results

Barbed tentacles of forced intrusion – you don’t want to know

[Mr Tough Guy]

Maybe you should watch a bit of Fairy Tail, Japanese anime series about a wizards guild,
the series is full of wizards, each with their own type of magic, and would be a perfect starting point.
It also happens to be my favourite anime series, and while it's currently on hiatus because the anime was catching up with the manga,
there's plenty of episode already. the last story arc is especially interesting as it involves a sort of wizard competition with each guild fighting to be crowned the top guild.
so there's plenty of differnt wizards with a wide range of magic types

Anywho it's a great show, and even if you don't have time to watch some episodes, visit the fairy tail wiki and check out some of the characters, there's usually a nice description of their magic and spells:
http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Fairy_Tail_(Guild)

[Laughing Ferret]

Good Topic.

I just posted my first draft of a magic system for use with fantasy skirmish or 15mm element unit army scale:

http://laughingferret.blogspot.com/2013/12/on-nature-of-natural-magic.html

But probably not what you're looking for: the magic system (I hope) is interesting for the background of the system and how spells are chosen & relate to each other, but the spells are intended to be pretty standard with small and obvious game effects, to keep the power low. So the standard expected effects are there, like small missile strikes, buffs & debuffs.

But for what you're looking for is more common in RPG gaming than minis wargaming. Wargames tend to rely on clear & expected results, but an RPG can get more creative because it has a moderator: the GM.  If your minis games use a GM, someone running the game, some groups do this, then it would be easier to implement what you're after.  If you don't, if just 2 people playing against each other, it could work but you'd need some system for determining what the spell effect is if the players disagree with the effect it would have.  Comes down to the fact that there is no disputing what "12 inch range missile shot at strength 4" does, but wide open to what the game effects of "Bigby's Grasping Hand" might do.

To get the most interesting spell effects I think you need a GM or 2 players who are clearly playing in disinterested high fun spirit. That later should always be hoped for, but isn't always possible.

So for Interesting Spell Effects, what about something like 'Cantrip Wars' where you take the most powerful magical traditions and bring in the most small and basic applications of it.

For example:

Necromancy: One of the most powerful magics, but at a freshman level you can only control about one limb's worth of bone at a time. So you might animate a squirrel, or could control an opponent's arm or leg for a turn... make them move at half rate, drop a shield, swing their sword at their buddy standing next to them, turn their head, or yank their bow arm up when firing. What else could you do with it?

Summoner: Greater Demons, Djinn & Elementals are out of the question at an intro level, but doesn't mean you can't summon a hundred ants under the knight's armor. Or summon a bright light elemental to dance 3" infront of someone's face so they can't see anything, or summon a little water elemental to soak the powder of the guy with the musket...

Illusionist: Nothing fancy, but small effects are useful: the old 'he's not your friend, I'm your friend!' or make yourself look like a Troll to cause fear for a turn. what else?

Chronomancy: slow time so that you move faster... could be a lot of potential uses there.

looking through a D&D book might give more ideas.

I like the idea of using magic having an affect on the terrain or game environment.  

Did you ever see the HBO series Carnival? One character could heal, but it meant an equal amount of death would be created.. so sucking life from one thing and pouring it into another. That could work for healing magic.. like restore a wound on one character but take it from another, or reduce 3 others by a point of vitality, or it dries out an area of forest you're in.. but if there is no forest, the grass field isn't enough so it is going to come from your other team members.

Or blame it on the faeries... every time someone casts a spell there is a good chance it interests the faeries and they do a random act: maybe good, probably not.. they may throw up brambles around someone, or make them drowsy, or the spell might cause something from their magical world to be revealed like a faerie circle that could have random effects on anyone in it or who walks into it.

[YPU]

Aktr, some nice sugestions there. You put the finger on what I am talking about. You can have a confusion spell that makes people act random'ish. Or you can have a confusion spell that makes them act like a confused badger. Effect might be pretty much the same rules wise but the explanations for actions becomes a lot more amusing and flavourful. Its the pepper in the vanilla rules.

Mr tough guy, thanks for the suggestions, your not the first to recommend it to me but I gave it a pass till now, might have to change that!

Ferret, I am hoping on getting away without a GM, I just want my spells to be less bland in general. Spells will be the main focus of this game, since 80percent or so of the models should be wizards. Like I said, think harry potter gang war.
Like you point out low level spells should be interesting as well! You should have fun stories to tell about your games from the first skirmish to the last climactic battle of a campaign. High level spells should be alluring, but the low ones should still be fun.

As things stand I plan to have every model have a knowledge skill which determines the number of spells he can have. I'm thinking that most spells will have 3 levels to them. One that allows the spell to be cast once per game. One higher lever that allows them to be cast 3 times and one that allows infinite uses. I think that with the aforementioned stat card use keeping track by ticking of boxes should keep this manageable.