A little revolutionary treat...

[Craig]

So does that mean I can use non-IHMN figures for IHMN games then?

Dear Dr De'ath,

One of the themes of the IHMN series is to free players to do exactly what they want, not what some corporate bean-counter wants. I use non-IHMN figures to play the game all the time; my Totenkopf are Wargames Factory Shock Troopers; my Herge's Adventurers are Lead Adventure; and my Brick Lane Commune a mix of Northstar and other manufacturer's ranges.

Nick and the chaps at Northstar have been so very kind as to make several sets of excellent figures to support the game, which has made these two old men very happy. However, this is not an exclusivity deal like you'd get with other games. We actively encourage you to make your own companies, monkey about with the rules to suit you and your friends, and to choose and use figures you already have or that you like.

So the official line from the authors is - there is NO official line

[Scorpio]

So the official line from the authors is - there is NO official line

Dogs and cats living together, mass chaos.

[Eisenfaust]

Dogs and cats living together, mass chaos.

"Real wrath of God type stuff"

[abdul666lw]

So the official line from the authors is - there is NO official line

An extremely laudable approach: coming from (quasi)historical wargaming, where the setting, rules and miniatures manufacturers are totally independent choices, I *hate* those enterprises who (rather successfully if they are 'major') try to 'enslave' the consumer by claiming their game to be a 'complete hobby' that can only be played with official ©®™ miniatures decorated with official ©®™ paints using official ©®™ brushes. Any GW fanboy will know Illumination (and be released from bondage) when he realizes he can play in the WH40K universe using 15mm minis from various manufacturers and Stargrunt II rules.
A very user-friendly approach, and a very sound one: to allow the use of proxy miniatures can only booster the success of a new game and thus that of any 'optional official' miniatures (provided they are of a 'mainstream' scale).
I suspect that a game such as Carnevale would have became more popular if Vesper-on games had actively encouraged the use of proxy minis on their site, posting suggestions and painted examples on their forum (though of course the game is also handicapped by its very specific setting a scope: had it be easily adaptable to 18th C. London, Paris and New England...). Symmetrically to actively prevent the use of proxy minis by adopting an unusual scale (Dystopian Legions come to mind) is a sure recipe for poor sales.

[Craig]

Well Abdul, perhaps you should try 'In the Emperor's Name' the progenitor of IHMN.  Real W40K skirmish gaming 

[Diakon]

Lovely looking company there. Love the flame effect on that Brick Lane Bottle. Properly nice.   Interested in grabbing them at some point.

Also I feel obliged to point out that you can use any miniatures you want to play GW games too (even Northstar's IHMN range  ). If you're playing against friends what's to stop you. I don't think the store staff are gonna come rappelling through your windows to stop you if you do. The only kind's of people who would object to it aren't really the kind's of players I wanna be playing against anyway to be fair.

[Craig]

Also I feel obliged to point out that you can use any miniatures you want to play GW games too (even Northstar's IHMN range  ). If you're playing against friends what's to stop you.

I agree. However, if you were to turn up to an official tournament or walk into a GW store and try and use non-GW figures you would be marched straight back out again. Unfortunately a lot of players have carried that attitude back into their local games clubs. I have had people refuse to play me in a club because I was using non-GW figures.

When I originally wrote In the Emperor's Name I had a lot of people say I couldn't use GW's intellectual property like that and refused to play it because it wasn't official. A year later one of them wrote to GW to complain about ItEN and I had an interesting correspondence with their legal department. That ended when they realised that it was a completely amateur effort, I was promoting their figures, they didn't have an equivalent game in print and I agreed to include a copyright disclaimer. I expect that when GW do get around to releasing a new W40K skirmish game I shall get a cease & desist letter.

Despite this ItEN has gone from strength to strength with over 5,000 downloads of the third edition, which was put together so well by Jodrell.

[former user]

I have had people refuse to play me in a club because I was using non-GW figures.
When I originally wrote In the Emperor's Name I had a lot of people say I couldn't use GW's intellectual property like that and refused to play it because it wasn't official.

unfortunately, this kind of misinterpretation of IP is encountered every so often nowadays, also unrelated to GW, when a whole lawsuit industry has built up to exploit this attitude.....

[Varangian]

unfortunately, this kind of misinterpretation of IP is encountered every so often nowadays, also unrelated to GW, when a whole lawsuit industry has built up to exploit this attitude.....

There's a bit more to it than a misinterpretation. Unfortunately if companies allow others to use their IP outside of contract the companies control over their own work gets degraded over time. A lot of us were SHOCKED that GW was so willing to allow Lord Inquisitor (the fan made movie that is being worked on) to continue. Ultimately it was under pretty much the same deal as what Craig encountered with ItEN, they just wanted very clear language protecting their legal control over the IP.

[former user]

I was not referring to the case where IP inrfingement results in the degradation of creativity profits.

I am referring especially to the cases where there is no profit by others who "infringe", yet lawyers still threaten lawsuits and make a living out of it - I am sure everyone has heard of copyright trolls.

there are clearly limits to copyright exclusivity, and apart from there being regulations for these under the fair use, fair dealing reglementation, this limitation is a value in itself.

@Craigs example is a very good one exactly for that case

The problem with the concept that cumulates in the "IP-mania", that there are no common goods is the misconception that anyone can exist on his own as long as they inforce exclusive use of their "property". As long as we ignore that all these concepts are cultural constructs that are flexible and negotiable and not natural laws like gravity, we will get deeper and deeper into trouble.

These are times where the limits of marketability and individual property will have to be negotiated very thoroughly, before we end up starving and without clear water in 10 years, but driving on vegetable fuel.

I do not intend to start a discussion about this, just to offer a few mementoes...

[Dewbakuk]

I was not referring to the case where IP inrfingement results in the degradation of creativity profits.

I am referring especially to the cases where there is no profit by others who "infringe",

Profit is irrelevant to Copyright Infringement, as has been said, they are free to allow use in cases but even in those cases they can show that they have been in correspondence and have 'actively' defended their IP.


However, weren't we supposed to be talking about Anarchists? 

[former user]

I am afraid You are talking with an Anarchist 

[Varangian]

However, weren't we supposed to be talking about Anarchists? 

Fair point! I think I may end up having to use this as a guide to create an Irish-Homerule Company.

In addition to the company stats I think working out specific "small gain" objectives would help make it feel a bit more like an insurgency.