Please help me understand Germany through the ages

[ErikB]

Servus, Guten Tag, Gruess euch!

Could someone help me understand, in terms of wargaming minis, what Germany and Germans looked like from ancient times through Napoleonic times?

Please correct me if I am wrong here.

Ancient: German tribesmen, per Warlord Games' Germans, part naked, wore pants and sometimes shirts with those stripes and plaid patterns.

Dark Ages: German tribes, like Goths (south) and Anglo-Saxons (north), took over the Late Roman technology and appearance, like Musketeer Miniatures' line of Goths and Late Roman.

Middle Ages: Crusade knights, knights like War of the Roses in England, then, later, Landsknecht in appearance.

Pre-Napoleon: Landsknechts still, more guns and artillery, until armies started wearing uniforms and carrying muskets.

Does this sound right?  Just in very, very general terms.

There is so much information about the different stages of English evolution but my ancestry comes from Germany/Lithuania and that is more interesting to me.

Vielen Dank!

[Lowtardog]

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In truth I think there are a lot more variations and changes within your main groups think Barbarossa for one, Frederick the great to name 2

[Doomhippie]

Very basically you are right.
Ancient Germanic tribes did not wear a lot of armor in battle. I'm not sure about the plaid on trousers. As far as I know those were more common in Gaul and the Gallic tribes.

Early Middle Ages seem about right to me. Depending on the were and when they would probably be influenced by late Roman armor, though the wepaons were fairly distinct Germanic (longswords etc). Some minor tribes might be more simply dressed.

High Middle Ages is again another matter. You have the knights and nobles in their chain armor and the majority of troops more or less untrained peasants.

The late Mddle Ages saw the Landsknecht armies appearing while the nobles wore These ridiculous heavy plate armours.

I'm not really sure when uniforms were finally introduced but keep in mind that the Holy Roman Empire as it was called was a highly divided Empire that had more than 300 (!) sperate states or political entities after 1648. So uniforms would be rather varied since there never officially was a "German army" until 1871 (and even then some states within Germany had officially there own army such as Bavaria and Saxony).

During WW I. the army was slowly given a uniform look but I guess it wasn't until after 1918 that you could no longer differentiate what part of Germany soldiers came from.

[ErikB]

Great, thanks for the responses!

What lines of minis would suffice for Lithuania and Wien during the Dark Ages?  Let's say, 500-1100 AD.

Saxons, Gripping Beast Jomsvikings and Pagan Rus for Lithuania?

And Goths for Vienna and Slovakia?

[former user]

here we are, the illustrated history of Germany in a handful of posts      (no offence to the posters actually, I am simply amused at the idea of the approach  )

if You need a nice intro, there are some books of the kind: "famous battles through the ages" or so, where authors try to illustrate a bit. Did BBC or history channel not produce some documentary on that topic? I know a polish movie "the crusaders" after a book by Sinkiewitz, but it's about a different period.

Otherwise nothing will actually spare You reading a bit deeper into the matter.
If it is only about wargaming, then You could simply follow the miniature ranges and the galleries of painted miniatures available on the net, this is just as good as anything

btw, it would appear to me that it is the history of northern/central Europe You are loking after, not Germany. I am pretty sure there are quite some movies made in the countries who struggle for a national identity since the fall of the iron curtain. A bit of searching on Youtube could be interesting.

You will find out that between the migration period and the livonic crusade, the part of Europe You are hinting at was pretty much in a slavic zone of political influence. So, apart from the norse expansion (mainly trade centered in that area), not much "germanic" around... Here is a map that I personally find quite interesting


just to point out how debated research on that topic is....
and constantly trying to avoid the pitfalls of either pan-germanic pretension or pan-slavic identity in order to be taken seriously....

[carlos marighela]

At what point in German history did the mullet become a popular hairstyle? Is this a relatively modern phenomenon or does it trace its history deep into Teutonic history. Every time I see one in Brazil its owner is invariably a German tourist. Inquiring minds must know.

[Doomhippie]

Now that's a cool map ypou have there. In fact the border between Germanic and Slav People ran right through the middle of the area I ive in. Even today after over 1000 years you can tell by the names of villages and towns who originally lived there.

Remember that a national identity as we know today is a fairly modern invention of the 17th century and even much later when you think of national/patriotic feeling of the broad masses and the politicians.

Germany as she looks today was very slowly built during the last 1000 years. Historically we have a west to east flowing cultural advancement and during the High Middle-Ages a development we in Germany call "eastern colonization" in the time between 900 and 1200 with the Holy Roman Empire slowly integrating the west slavic tribes into her territory (oh well, maybe I should just say by conquering those lands).

Poland was a already an established Christian kingdom at the time the two countries became direct neighbours which lead to both acceptance of and frictions with each other.

[Sterling Moose]

At what point in German history did the mullet become a popular hairstyle?

 

Herr Cutt is to blame!!  I like the kid's haircuts best - mullet thing on top and a single long braid at the back.  It must harken back to the days of Armenius.
(Disclaimer:  No offence meant whatsoever to my German comrades)

[Doomhippie]

At what point in German history did the mullet become a popular hairstyle? Is this a relatively modern phenomenon or does it trace its history deep into Teutonic history. Every time I see one in Brazil its owner is invariably a German tourist. Inquiring minds must know.

As far as I know long hair has always been the sign of the free man. There was supposed to be magical power in hair. Remember this old fairy tale of the princess in her tower letting down her hair so the Knight could climb up? No idea what it is called in English, in German we call it "Rapunzel". Anyway, that is a sign of those old believes.

I read somewhere that Heinrich Himmler was very upset when HJ members tried to grow Long hair to Show their Germanic heritage and that he published a Statement in which he denounced that hairstyle saying something along the lines of "we are not Germanic tribesmen but nationalsocialist Germans. We wear our hair in a disciplined short style."

The hair of the last Merowingian king was cut off when the Carolingians pushed him from the throne in the 7th/8th centuryin order to show that he not only lost political power but the grace of the gods (well, at that time God) as well.

[Sterling Moose]

It's Rapunzel in English too.

[former user]

In returning to the topic - I intentionally avoided to imply any kind of national concept of "german".
I would assume that an approach along the lines of language and religion can be regarded as acceptable when it comes to some kind of "identity" for the period the OP asked about.

two points are notable - the germanic expansion (speakers of germanic languages), started during the migration period and finished with the norman conquest (although by that time the lingua franca had been adopted)  features a lot of contact activity, from trade and raids to conquest and occupation. It is interesting to notice that the Wikings and saxons occupied countries as far as Ireland, but not the slavic speaking neighbourhood - they only established trading settlements - I wonder why, not that the weather is better in Dublin than in Krakow....
Plus, the region in question was the last one in Europe to be submitted to Christianity - many crusades with considerable effort involved were entertained to god knows where before the german empire thought about attempting to do this with the baltic countries....

[carlos marighela]

Very basically you are right.
Ancient Germanic tribes did not wear a lot of armor in battle. I'm not sure about the plaid on trousers. As far as I know those were more common in Gaul and the Gallic tribes.

Early Middle Ages seem about right to me. Depending on the were and when they would probably be influenced by late Roman armor, though the wepaons were fairly distinct Germanic (longswords etc). Some minor tribes might be more simply dressed.

High Middle Ages is again another matter. You have the knights and nobles in their chain armor and the majority of troops more or less untrained peasants.

The late Mddle Ages saw the Landsknecht armies appearing while the nobles wore These ridiculous heavy plate armours.

I'm not really sure when uniforms were finally introduced but keep in mind that the Holy Roman Empire as it was called was a highly divided Empire that had more than 300 (!) sperate states or political entities after 1648. So uniforms would be rather varied since there never officially was a "German army" until 1871 (and even then some states within Germany had officially there own army such as Bavaria and Saxony).

During WW I. the army was slowly given a uniform look but I guess it wasn't until after 1918 that you could no longer differentiate what part of Germany soldiers came from.

Of course the true mulllet is neither fish nor fowl nor good red meat. Short at the sides, long down the back, blunt, bowl-cut fringe optional. It seems to belong neither to the adherents of a failed chicken farmer's strictures on male coiffure or to the prototypical freeman. Germans do seem to be both the most fervent adherents to the style as well as the most fundamentalist in terms of preserving the classic mullet. Was the Dukes of Hazard popular in Germany or can we ascribe the phenomenon to Billy Bob Cyrus of Miley and Achy-Breaky fame?

[former user]

Germans do seem to be both the most fervent adherents to the style as well as the most fundamentalist in terms of preserving the classic mullet.

however, the question arises: is the mullet represented in miniature sculpting in the authentic way it should be?

because otherwise, how is one to represent a germani army? mabe someone should start a mullet sculpting competiton....

[Westfalia Chris]

Wargaming/modelling context. In a demonstrably plausible way. ASAP. 

[Michi]

Wargaming/modelling context. In a demonstrably plausible way. ASAP. 

Now try to find an Opel Manta B  suitable for 28mm before somebody starts sculpting a male figure sporting mullet, moustache, cowboy boots, tank top and carrot shaped jeans - or even worse: females sporting mullets, denim jackets and spandex leggings...