Help sought for a new Central Asian Pulp project...

[Red Orc]

... though it could be 'Back of Beyond'. Answers might come from people from the 'Colonial' board too.

Persia/Afghanistan/Central Asia in the Interwar period. Roughly, what's now Turkmenistan, more or less 1921-35.

I've got a fair idea about sourcing Pulp heroes and villains, but what about the 'troops'? I guess that I'll need small forces of British, maybe some Russians, and locals (Basmachis?), suitable for gaming the location/period.

I'm not looking for something completely historically exact - there is definitely 'Pulp Licence' going on here. But suggestions for minis that are more-or-less right would be good. Jezzails, for instance - have they all gone out of use by then? Camels - Bactrian seems more likely than Arabian; that kind of thing is probably useful to know.

Any info, pics, links to manufacturers, that sort of thing, greatly appreciated.

[FramFramson]

I'm thinking something very similar, albeit not not quite as localized.

One line I did see that looked great were the pathans from Empress's Jazz Age Imperialism line. That's not quite Turkmenistan proper, but you may still find them useful.

For actual Basmachi, cuprum makes a series of them, which can be found here: http://siberia-miniatures.ru/  and his thread on the boards is here: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=23023.0

For regular Russians, I am getting the Copplestone Bolshevik infantry and doing head swaps with the west wing pilotka (russian side cap) head pack, which is a reasonable approximation of 1930's-era soviet infantry. A couple have puttees instead of boots, but that can be smoothed over with greenstuff.

[Hammers]

This is very much like one of my project.

I favor various Copplestone releases for Mongols, Tibetans, Russians, Chinese, Brittish Indian Army and some Turks.

Turkmenes (Uzbeks, Kirgiz...) are difficult to find, save for cuprum's  Basmakhis. I really recommend Siberian Miniatures. I have just a few of their Russians but the Basmachis look great.

I also use some Pathans and Baluchis from Foundry. I don't have the Jazz Age pathans from Empress but they are on my shopping list.

Old Glory make some Pathans which are somewhat maligned by some gamers but I quite like them.

There are a lot of WWI British which can easily converted for Indian tropical/desert use with Woodbine sikh/Muslim/Wollesleyed heads.

[area23]

I had a similar idea to built a warband of Afghan Sufi Dervishes using Foundry Baluchi.

i got inspired by this wonderful writing by Peter Lamborn Wilson a.k.a. Hakim Bey:

http://www.nthposition.com/iranorpersia.php

 

[Red Orc]

Hammers, I saw your stuff the other day when searching for info on Malleson. It's already given me some ideas. I think I'll be using a fictionalised version of history and geography, much as you did with the Smut Valley. My version will use some stuff on Imaginations I've already gathered, probably including Kamistan (from an American TV show, I forget which one at the moment), which will stand for either Afghanistan or Persia. And though I started this saying 'up to 1935' or thereabouts I think I'm going to reign that in to the 1920s.

The conversations over at the BoB board have definitely sharpened some aspects up - I will need British late WWI or interwar troops in tropical gear, as well as Indians. I'll need some Turcoman cavalry, and some Russians. Because the Transcaspia stuff is only one aspect of this however, I'll be getting some Afghans too (it was searching the Empress 'Jazz Age Imperialism' range that alerted my to this thread actually - seeing 'A Jazz Age Journey...' made me say 'hullo!' and I clicked on the link).

Area23, sorry, I'm not touching anything by Peter Lamborn Wilson, the man is in my opinion poison.

[FramFramson]

I'll be trending more into India itself in my adventures, so one thing I will probably plan to do to keep things clear is set up things like this:

British line troops in tropical gear w/pith helmets, but maybe also in some WWI outfits for colder areas? The Copplestone officers are a mix of tropical and regular gear.
British Indian Army in late WWI outfits with various sikh/muslim turbans
Princely state troops in tropical gear with various sikh/muslim turbans

Which will help make the three groups distinct. The pith helmet is what will really distinguish the white troops from the south asian ones at a glance.

Best I can find on the "everyday" uniforms for princely state troops tended to tropical dress (with various colours for the short-sleeved shirt) with sandals rather than army boots, so that drove my choices. I think I can let any other minor differences slide.

To do this, I've got Copplestone tropical Brits, British WWI Muslims and Sikhs on the way. Then headswapping will follow. I only need a few princely state troops as occasional extras for a league, so mostly it'll be British troops and BIA troops.

[Red Orc]

I too am thinking Copplestone Tropical Brits, and WWI Sikhs (infantry and cavalry). Punjabi Rifles and all that, even if not necessarily the 19th Punjabis who went into Transcaspia.

As for 'native' troops, I'm tending towards Turcomanic cavalry (for Transcaspia obviously), and probably some Afghans (infantry and cavalry) and perhaps 'Basmachis' as well (I relaise this means approximately 'bandits' rather than being an ethnic designation). I can seperate them into discrete categories when I'm being historically-inclined, or not when I'm not.

Then there's the headache of the Russians of course.

But because this is Pulp rather than being strict historical interwar stuff, I also need loads of civilians - like Hammers, I think a lot of the fun is going to come from the stuff going on in the bazaar as much as what's happening on the battlefield.

[FramFramson]

Finding good civilians has been a bit of a pain. I've scraped together a few here and there, but I'd love to hear what other ideas people are using.

[MalcyBogaten]

I am constantly on the look out for civilian figures (unarmed for preference) as objectives/innocent bystanders/get in the way objects.

I have picked up Westwind/Artizan/Foundry/RAFM and Ral Partha bits but they are thin on the ground for the period and you do have to use your own and other people's imagination.

I think it might be worth a punt at starting a thread for peoples links/thoughts on this sort of idea.

I'd love for someone else to share their finds or minor conversions.

Maybe a manufacturer could do a range of "Period" boxed sets. (I know Blue Moon did some metal ones for Victorian)

Pipedreams maybe? (Oooh I don't smoke!)

[former user]

I guess You already read that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basmachi_movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_War_of_1919

and a few of the Corto Maltese films are set there, nice inspiration too

[area23]

Are there any good books on the Basmachi movement in English, or an european language I might more or less understand? I suppose most usefull information is either in russian or arabic.
Judging from the Wiki text, clearly the political and religious situation was very complex, similar to today in the region.

This is a topic that's been strongly growing on me for a while, but I just don't feel like studying comparative religion, sufism and central-asian political history for the next thirty years!

[FramFramson]

My adventures will be in the mid-30's, so the Basmachis and Western invasions/RCW events have much less of a space. Cuprum makes lovely Basmachis, though.

As for civilians, I've managed a few here and there. I'll put them up eventually when I get them painted.

What I find is that generic fellows in suits will work in many places, so the Copplestone "Honest citizens?" pack is invaluable.

Ironically, my initial campaigns will take place in England and western Europe, rather than Central Asia, because I have western european-style terrain from my fantasy gaming. Just so we can get off the ground around here, learn the game, etc. Once I get off my duff to make some more terrain we can move to Asia.

[Red Orc]

''duff''.  haven't heard that in years.

Sorry,  I've been drinking, my friends took me out for a belated birthday drink.

I'm thinking since my Central Asia is based in part on ImagiNations such as Kamistan, it doesn't matter so much if some of the figures have more of a fantasy vibe. The main forces if I'm going to be using for fighting battles will be broadly historical, I figure. But civvies (and heroes) might owe a little more to Indiana Jones-meets-Aladdin any kind of reality.

[zebcook]

Brigade Games has their "Storm in the East" line -- mostly Russians and Czech Legion, but some good Cossacks (it's pulp, you must have Cossacks!). They also carry Artizan's Thrilling Tales figs which have a few good packs for troops. Plus they have wonderfully odd Interwar vehicles and armored trains to scale.

Not quite Central Asia, but Studio Siberia offers a "Defenders of the Manor" set with assorted armed servants and peasants.

[FramFramson]

The defenders of the manor are one of my favourite sets of anything, but I think most of the outfits are too dated for soviet times. Well, there's a few I could definitely use, but I don't think I'd buy the whole pack for the 1/3rd I'd use.

For RCW they're be great though.