Saladin's Coat of Arms

[Teshub]

I have a student who is researching Saladin and I was unable to help him locate a genuine coat of arms for his project.

I don't know if this great Muslim general had a family crest or not but I figured I would be best off asking at the LAF!

So does anyone here know of Saladin's colors or emblem?

Please post pic if possible   

[Admiral Alder]

Hi, I'm not a huge expert,
but I'm pretty sure Saladin (and the Muslim world generally) didn't have a personal crest or sygil in the way western knights would have done, it is possible that Saladin would have used the crescent moon as a personal symbol, or he may have flown the black banner of Jihad, having declared himself leader of a holy war against the Crusader kingdoms. By and large Islamic art is not representational (exclude Sufism) and so a calligraphic or geometric device might be accurate.

The later Mamluk leader Bibars was known as the Lion of the desert, I don't think that's relevant, or a source of a crest.   

would be very interested to find out more about the progress of this search.

[Arlequín]

As Alder says, Islam largely discourages 'aniconism' (the depiction of any 'sentient living creature' in art; hence all the flowers, plants, stars and geometric patterns which adorn buildings), developing a form of heraldry was pretty much a non-starter for them. Nevertheless the Eagle is associated with him, to the point that the one on the Egyptian crest is termed the 'Gold Eagle of Saladin' and another eagle appears on the wall of Cairo's citadel, which was built during Saladin's rule.

I'm no expert either, but I suspect that a coloured flag, with either a quote from the Quran, a hadith (traditional saying usually relating to something in the Quran), or one of the more usual crescent moon and star combinations, are probably far more likely for a personal standard and possibly several might have been used over time, there being no particular attachment to them in the same way as a coat of arms.   

[emosbur]

I have not at hand the book, but I think that in WRG Armies of the Crusades it says that personal badge of Saladin was a falcon. But I am speaking from memory. I´ll check as soon I return home.

Emilio.

[OSHIROmodels]

Slightly off topic but I remember being told by our college art teacher (who was well educated in the subject) that if you represent Islamic script it has to be done right and not just scribbles as it causes offence.

Whether this would count for wargaming I wouldn't know as it'll so bloody small you wouldn't e able to read it anyway 

cheers

James

[Arlequín]

والحمد لله تمت ترجمة جوجل أنها تغطي

(Thankfully google translate has it covered) 

[Atheling]

والحمد لله تمت ترجمة جوجل أنها تغطي

(Thankfully google translate has it covered) 

Ah, but for those of us challenged by time.... what does it say?

I thought perhaps some of his titles as well (He did have rather a lot of them)?

Darrell.

[Cubs]

No, that's exactly what it says - 'Thankfully Google Translate Has it Covered'.

That third group of characters that look a bit like a pair of eyes with a fringe coming down to the side of one of them, that's the Arabic for 'Google'.

[Atheling]

No, that's exactly what it says - 'Thankfully Google Translate Has it Covered'.

 

Darrell.

[Arlequín]

You're obviously trying to read it from left to right, a common error. 

[Admiral Alder]

On a side note the reason for the shapes in Arabic script is due to a lack of writing materials in the Arabian peninsular (too hot for wax tablets, no papyrus etc) so the calligraphy was formed from carving into rocks, which resulted in a language with long chisel strokes.

Dating in terms of the Arab conquest can be done through the development of a style influenced by other handwritings and the ability to make more complex flowing lines on written mediums newly made available.

[Hammers]

I'm no expert either, but I suspect that a coloured flag, with either a quote from the Quran, a hadith (traditional saying usually relating to something in the Quran)

Like "Peace now!", "Save the Whales!", "Totes amazeballs!"or "Kilroy was here!"?

[von Lucky]

السلام الآن!
انقاذ الحيتان!
مستحضرات تجميل amazeballs!
كان كيلروي هنا!

I would have all four banners in an army. I think they'd look quite fetching.

[Arlequín]

Like "Peace now!", "Save the Whales!", "Totes amazeballs!"or "Kilroy was here!"?

Please! Something historical, like;

ذهبت إلى حصار عكا وجميع ما حصلت عليه هو هذا الشعار رديء

(I went to the siege of Acre and all I got was this lousy banner)

[emosbur]

I checked the WRG book, and it says that a probably badge for Saladin is an eagle (not a falcon), another may be a lion (used by several family members). The book shows a shield (a drawing) with an eagle, and under the eagle a cup (for the cupbearers). A probably colour is yellow. Abbyubid elite troops used yellow coats.

Emilio.