Saladin's Coat of Arms

[Atheling]

I checked the WRG book, and it says that a probably badge for Saladin is an eagle (not a falcon), another may be a lion (used by several family members). The book shows a shield (a drawing) with an eagle, and under the eagle a cup (for the cupbearers). A probably colour is yellow. Abbyubid elite troops used yellow coats.

Emilio.

Good point, the high aristocracy (we're talking Royalty) of Europe were the only people allowed to do any hunting with and eagle so why not the same in the Meddle East about the same time?

Darrell.

[Arlequín]

I'm not sure where they derive from originally, but these are supposedly based on original Ayyubid designs;

[Atheling]

I'm not sure where they derive from originally, but these are supposedly based on original Ayyubid designs;

I've seen those before but cannot place them...... 

Darrell.

[Cubs]

I checked the WRG book, and it says that a probably badge for Saladin is an eagle (not a falcon), another may be a lion (used by several family members).

I'm sorry, but I don't see that happening at all and I think they have made an error. As already stated, any image of a living creature was seen as blasphemous. I don't see the defender of Islam doing that or getting away with it if he did. Having said that, occasionally there was a 'back door' way of doing it, by manipulating the Arabic characters into resembling the shape of the thing it described.

All I've read about Saladin reinforces what others have said about him using banners with quotes from the Qu'ran.

[emosbur]

I'm sorry, but I don't see that happening at all and I think they have made an error. As already stated, any image of a living creature was seen as blasphemous. I don't see the defender of Islam doing that or getting away with it if he did. Having said that, occasionally there was a 'back door' way of doing it, by manipulating the Arabic characters into resembling the shape of the thing it described.

All I've read about Saladin reinforces what others have said about him using banners with quotes from the Qu'ran.

I understand what you say, but..... Saladin was Kurd, not arab. And most Saladin troops were turkish. These are "new" muslims. Persians painted animals and persons. Moghuls too. Ottomans too. You can find a lot of examples in the web. Saladin was the Sultan, who was going to claim?


Emilio.

[emosbur]

To avoid confusion, I have to say that I am talking about SHIELD badges, not standards or flags. Sorry if I wasn´t clear.

Emilio.

[Cubs]

Well that's a new one on me, I must admit.

[Atheling]

Well that's a new one on me, I must admit.

You just have to look at Ottoman art really..... I know it's from a later period but there was as much variation in Islam as there was in the many Christian 'sects' that grew over time.

Darrell.

[Arlequín]

I'm dubious, as Saladin would have taken on the mantle of 'defender of the faithful' in his position, Kurd or not and was likely more Islamic than most. However the proscription against representing living creatures does not come from the Quran itself either, but from a hadith, which are sort of 'what God would have said had he the time to tell us everything' (some of which are disputed, hence the factions within Islam), rather than his direct words to his chosen prophet.

So potentially it is possible he did use a badge and such badges occasionally appear... as at Cairo. Certainly in the present too 'secular' Arab states do use animals on their national coats of arms.

Christians occasionally gave certain enemies, or legendary figures, 'honorary' coats of arms they never had too, as a representation of their apparent nobility and it may be that the association of Saladin (or others) with a particular badge may be wishful thinking rather than historic fact.

To avoid confusion, I have to say that I am talking about SHIELD badges, not standards or flags. Sorry if I wasn´t clear.

Generally speaking shield designs were often repeated on banners, in later periods anyway. At this point I don't know, but if an individual was known by his 'badge' I would assume he would display it on banner and shield as a big 'here I am' sort of statement.

Well that's a new one on me, I must admit.

That's the joy of LAF, it is a rare day when I don't learn at least one new thing from it. 

[A Lot of Gaul]

I checked the WRG book, and it says that a probably badge for Saladin is an eagle (not a falcon), another may be a lion (used by several family members). The book shows a shield (a drawing) with an eagle, and under the eagle a cup (for the cupbearers). A probably colour is yellow. Abbyubid elite troops used yellow coats.

Emilio.

The association stems from a relief depicting a stylized eagle on the west wall of the Citadel of Cairo, which was constructed under Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn/Saladin to protect the city from the Crusaders in 1176-1183:



There is no other evidence to suggest that the eagle was used as a personal emblem by Saladin, so the identification as such is widely contested. However, it is popularly believed to be so, and the "Eagle of Saladin" is currently used in both the national flag and the coat of arms for Egypt:






Cheers,
Scott

[Atheling]

Scott,

Bloody hell, the last image looks kind of fascist!! 

Darrell.

[Cubs]

Looks like I need to hand round some apologies because was dead wrong about this. I am really surprised because I thought Muslim societies never used images of living things.

I guess a day without learnin' something new is a day wasted.

[Atheling]

I guess a day without learnin' something new is a day wasted.

True, we all do it every day  .

Darrell.

[A Lot of Gaul]

Scott,

Bloody hell, the last image looks kind of fascist!!  

Darrell.

Hi Darrell,

Many of these eagle symbols are directly or indirectly referencing Imperial Rome, and the Eagle of Jupiter:







Cheers,
Scott

[A Lot of Gaul]

I am really surprised because I thought Muslim societies never used images of living things.

I guess a day without learnin' something new is a day wasted.

It's all good, Cubs... I learn new things here all the time!  

Cheers,
Scott