What do you think about this compressor ?

[sundayhero]

Hi,

thank you for your answer,

Concerning the side feed iwata, it's not an option since it's significantly more expensive (I already expanded my budget to 100euros for a bare airbrush, I cannot go further).

So it remains the badger patriot and the iwata bottom feed. For the Iwata, even after some searching, I didn't found these small detail metal cups we can find for other brand bottom feed airbrushes (http://www.amazon.com/badger-air-brush-company-4-ounce-color/dp/b000brovmu for instance). I'm not sure if these are compatible wich each other, so it's problematic.

Concerning the needle size, the 2 airbrushes I'm looking for are 0.5mm, so it's something I can forget about. I just readed that the 0.5mm was more simple to maintain, and better for broad painting.

concerning the pressure needed for the Iwata, I said that it needs higher pressure, but on the manual of Eclipse range they don't speak of a specific need for it.

Each brush seems very capable of large spraying, and fine details, easy to maintain and clean, making them the "work horse" wich I'm looking for. But I found good reviews and advises for both models.

That's a dilemna ! I don't know wich one to choose. Do you think they are a real upgrade, compared to a badger 150 ? This one come with 2 glass bottles + detail cup, and it's cheaper. If the benefit of the Iwata or Patriot is minimal, I may go for it, as it was my (barely) first idea.


edit : I guess I'll go for the gravity feed patriot. Less air consumtion (theorically) than a bottom feed, a good thing with my loud compressor (even if I will make a noise system for it). Less paint wasted when I just need to add a few details. No need for extra bottles. Still able to make broad coverage and fine details, without needing to change head or whatever.

edit2 : I took a look on the spare parts prices too. It comforts my choice of Badger, the parts are significantly cheaper (at least in the stores I found).

[Connectamabob]

In the long run Iwata parts can be cheaper, since they don't really wear out. You'd only need to replace them if they get outright damaged. Badger'll have you replacing needles/nozzles every once in a while regardless, because their parts are made of softer metal. How often depends on how much you use the brush in general though, of course.

All the Eclipses should cost the same, but I realize that's likely another vendor availability related issue. The Eclipse manual probably doesn't mention pressure limits for the BCS because it's a "one size fits all"  manual for all the Eclipse brushes. It's a physical limitation of siphon-fed designs in general that the Venturi effect needs to be powerful enough to suck the paint up the feed tube and through the body all on it's own, necessitating a certain minimum air pressure.

If it's between the BCS and the Patriot... I do think you're making the better choice with the Patriot, even though I've not tried it myself. It doesn't have the big color bottle, but it's easy to streamline refilling the cup by putting some pre-mixed paint in a squeeze bottle or something. It'll be easier to clean than the BCS just because of the gravity cup, and you'll be able to work low-pressure with it if you need/want to. While in my experience Iwata has cleaner machining and plating, badger has a needle bearing design that leads to fewer crevices inside the body for paint to get in, so in theory it should require less flushing than even the HP-CS to fully clean (though this is unfortunately not the case with the SOTAR, due to the way the cup is attached to the body).

AAAAAANYway, I don't want to be overwhelming with all the different choices/recommendations, or to seem like I'm too eager to spend other people's money. I apologize is I came off either way at any time.

Regardless of all the different options discussed, IMO the number one thing a beginner really needs more than ANYTHING else, no matter what kind of ABing they want to do, is a brush that'll require as little jiggery-pokery as possible in order to function and clean. As a newbie you really want to be able to focus on the actual spraying without getting bogged down at every turn with tedious maintenance rituals or fiddly "fixes" for bits that should just work but don't. Save the more complicated or temperamental models 'till you've built up enough experience to be able to deal with that stuff efficiently and with confidence. If you've never owned an airbrush before, and have to pick between a brush that'll give you less potential trouble, and a brush which has the better specs/design for the specific type of painting you want to do, you should 100% go with the former. IMO way too many people try ABing once, only to write it off as "to much fuss" because they prioritized that stuff wrong when buying their first brush.

[sundayhero]

Thank you for your help,

I hope the patriot will be good for my scenery needs, I'm still not sure my idea of buying a "good for everything" tool. You see what I mean : a tool not good for my scenery needs, but also too "general purpose" for miniature and small scale (1/100-1/72) armour.

We'll see ! In the worst case, there is a super fine detail available (very cheap, something like 20euros) for the Patriot, so I will always be able to buy a broad spray external single action for primering and keep the patriot for fine detail.

[sundayhero]

Me again, and I promise, last time  

I still didn't buy the airbrush, for the reason I was explaining in my last post. I made a few more searchings, to be sure to lock my choice, and I found this one  :

http://www.paascheairbrush.com/products/airbrushes-airbrush-parts-and-accessories/Airbrushes/double-action/TS-SET

I know you don't like the brand, but on paper it sounds the perfect set :

big name brand
affordable parts and 5 years warranty
2 bottles
1 detail cup
2 "head" sets for fine and medium work
quality braided hose (that's extra 10euros I will be able to spend elsewhere)

And last but not least, the "fan cap" optional part to use the brush like a mini spray gun, wich is just perfect for my scenery needs, even biggest projects with a 76mm/3" fan.




THe badger patriot claims it can also spray 76mm wide, but I'm not sure it can compare.I'm not sure also of the visible needle on the Patriot, it sounds risky in a wargame scenery dedicated workshop, even being carefull...

Not saying that I will buy the Talon, but I definitly need another night of google search   (working on my customers scenery during day, and searching for an airbrush online at night...This is my summer life    )

[Connectamabob]

Well... it is your money. All I can do is reiterate my experiences. IMO if you're willing to buy a Paasche, you're probably better off just buying one of the $20.00 Chinese models instead. About the only thing you're really getting for the price difference there is a warranty.

[sundayhero]

Believe me I'm listening to your advises, but since you was using other older  Paasche models, I thought the new Talon may be something...new  

Anyway I made a few more google search and I'm not sure I'll go for a paasche airbrush. I'm still thinking. Maybe the iwata bottom feed, maybe the patriot, maybe even a 150 with all range of needles and stuff.

edit : currently studying aztec airbrushes.




edit2: I found a french youtube channel with plenty of information on aztek tools. Very interesting ! That's the first airbrush wich feels (on paper at least) ALL my needs and demands.

[sundayhero]

Hi,

You'll be happy to hear that I didn't purchase a paasche airbrush, but a AZTEK complete set (the biggest one with all possible nozzles, and metal body). I'm not sure you'll agree with my choice, since apparently there is a lot of strong opinions (good and bad) for this tool. I don't know where is your own opinion for it

I made a lot of research, and on paper, this is THE all purpose tool I need and wich will fit my workflow the best. Hard to explain, but watching for videos, reading reviews, it just appears "right" according to my work habits, and the way I'm using tools. Affordable, easy to maintain and clean, cheap parts, versatile use, left handed compatibility, both gravity and bottom feed with small detail cups and big glass jars.

 I also saw great work done with this tool, wich finished to convince me.


I' ll let you know, thank you again for your help.

[Connectamabob]

Sorry for the absence. Was in the middle of an OS reinstall and rebuild on my comp.

I don't know anything personally about the Aztek. I'll admit I'm skeptical about it, but as you say, the word around the 'net on it is conflicted. Best I can tell, it's a competent workhorse brush, maybe not suitable for really fine detail, but more reliable and capable than one would expect just from it's construction.

[rambling]
Ease of cleaning is hard to get a handle on, as most of the glowing testimonials I've seen come without comparisons, and given its targeted demographic, may be from people who don't have experience with other brushes. There's a certain risk of "Amazon reviewer syndrome" there (lack of "control group" experiences with competing products allows Dunning-Kruger effect related biases to flourish). Though admittedly it doesn't matter if brush X is easier to clean than brush Y if brush X is easy enough.

Also there's the fact that with enough experience, it's possible to do good work with pretty much any brush, as long as it has passable atomization. Someone who's been using an Aztek exclusively for years, or an experienced skilled ABer in general, will not have a hard time producing good work with one even it's a POS. With airbrushes, experience has a huge role. The more skill/experience you have, the less the specific hardware matters. Good hardware is legitimately important for a "young" ABer, as without skill/experience, bad hardware can be VERY unforgiving. For an old pro though, good hardware is more about minmaxing your work time than about the actual paintwork you can accomplish. Reviews from mid-level users who've tried a few different brushes are more useful than reviews from beginners who've only used one, or old hands who can no longer tell what quirks might hit beginners harder (or who've formed ossified preferences based on familiarity, and confuse that with merit-based preference).
[/rambling]

[sundayhero]

thank you for your answer, again !

Concerning AZTEK reviews, good things I readed or discussed are from very experienced and talented modellers, some of them even wrote books (or magazine articles) or are (or were) offering pro painting services.

Concerning cleaning, there is some tutorials available, and the airbrush seems really easy to maintain, from cleaning between colors, "end session" cleaning, or deep cleaning.

We'll see, I should received it tommorow ! I'll let you know

[sundayhero]

I just received my airbrush set, I'm really impressed by overall quality so far (but I don't have a comparison point since it's my first airbrush), I still didn't try it for now, I have to finish my paint booth and compressor "noise cage". I'm quite busy these days, so I don't think I'll be able to test if before the week end, I think.

I'll let you know, I also have to post pics of my workshop, airbrush setup and of course, airbrush itself.

[sundayhero]

Here's some pics :







 

[sundayhero]

Hi,

Just to inform you that I almost completed my airbrush "corner shop" :





I still have to make an hole for evacuating air, and finish the noise box for the compressor (I didn't found a good insulation foam for the borders for now).

And of course plug everything together, with teflon tape and all. 

[sundayhero]

I finished the airbrush corner.

Now the booth and compressor are fully functional. I have to say that I'm very pleased with the compressor : the 24 litres pressurized at 8bars tank (once reduced to 1bar at the airbrush end) allows me a lot more spray time than I was expecting. Not speaking the fact that the dual manometer allows me a very stable and regular air flow at the end.





The noise is bearable with the noise reducer box, especially since because of the big tank,  the refilling process doesn't appear often. I would not use it at night anyway, wich is not a big deal again because of the big, high pressurized air tank, I can just unplug the compressor and still be able to use the airbrush.




Concerning the aztek airbrush, I'm also very pleased with my first tests (using only water on newspaper).




It's surprisingly easy to use, either in single or dual action modes, as long as you find the trick of correctly setting up the airflow. I found that the acrylic detail nozzle (black one) was especially easy to use. With tap water, it's very easy to make (in dual action mode) 1mm lines on the newspaper. I can't wait to really test it with paint !  


Later, I made a few more "water on news paper" tests, and I'm still very happy : I tried the broad 1mm nozzle, I can cover a double page of newspaper in just a few seconds. Perfect for my scenery needs. I also tried the other "plastic needle" nozzles, they are precise and easy to use. If I remember correctly, the red allows (surprising) fine detail to medium spray, and another one (not sure, maybe the orange one) just seems to be perfect for scenery detailing and weathering, with a very smooth, medium sized flow.

I still have to verify all this with proper paint, but for now I found exactly the wide scope of purposes I was looking for buying the aztek professional set.

[grant]

I posted this on the GHQ Models forum the other day. I'm one of the catalogue painters for them, and also do a fair amount of commission work. These were my thoughts:

I thought I would start a thread about airbrushes.

A good way to learn is to get a "sprayhulk"; I used an old M113 plastic model and painted it about 500 times until I was happy with my skills. I used Badger 150 brushes in the beginning.

Well worth the investment.

I would recommend:
Dual action - don't even consider single. Pointless.

0.2mm - 0.35mm needle - 0.2 is what I have, very fine lines. I don't do large scale work anymore.

Gravity fed (the paint sits in a cup on top); better flow is better control.
Iwata makes a number like this, HP-B or C+ are outstanding.

A real compressor, never cans, with a tank. Cans ice up as the propellant leaves, and are very costly. Without a tank, you will get some spitting as the diaphragm of the compressor works. I use an Iwata Power Jet Pro, it has two connections, a tank, and integral moisture traps and regulates. Also quick disconnect fittings. It's also insanely quiet with no bleed blast when full.

I used to use a Makita shop compressor with a moisture trap and regulator in line, but I was too noisy for my new house when we moved. My dog is terrified of compressor noise. She doesn't even notice the Iwata. I actually took her to the art shop and had them run the Iwata as a test   ::

It's not a cheap set up, but I do more than enough work to justify it; I use it for priming through detailing, and most days of the week I will use it for something.

Thinning. Paints are rarely thin enough to be shot through the airbrush. I use Vallejo paints, and with their Model Air, I still thin three drops of their Vallejo Airbrush Thinner to nine drops of paint. If I am spraying regular model colour, more like 5:1 - you want the consistency of skim milk, translucent.

Pressure. I personally have my compressor set to 27 psi. This seems high, but I find this is what works for me.

Cleaning. There is no such thing as cleaning your airbrush enough. I use the following routine:
Every colour change, I run two shoots of airbrush cleaner through the airbrush. I buy my cleaner bulk from art shops as Medea Airbrush Cleaner in 1L bottles.
At the end of every session, I clean  the whole brush, take off the crown, and using a toothbrush, get into the tip using a single bristle. Takes patience. I run plenty of hot water through the brush to make sure everything is cleared out.
I only very rarely take the fine tip out, if there is a serious clog.
When I reassemble the airbrush, I put airbrush lubricant on the needle, and then smear a bead all around the paint cup. This does two things: the assembly moves better, and the cleanup is easier. I have zero reaction with the paint and the lubricant. I use Iwata.


Hopefully we can all turn this thread into a great resource for airbrushing!

I think anyone can airbrush, and it will change your painting. It's not hard to do - so do it  ::

This is my table:
https://cama4.wordpress.com/2015/07/23/my-worktable/

[sundayhero]

Thank you for your answer, but I believe your interesting advises would have been more usefull in the "how to" section of the forum, instead of this quite specific thread


About the cleaning, for instance : with aztek airbrush, it's a complete diferent world