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Author Topic: Varnish Problems  (Read 2259 times)

Offline steve29651

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Varnish Problems
« on: June 01, 2015, 09:52:38 AM »
The old egg, Matt Varnish, I have been using Army Builder dip with some good results for WW2 Figures, however it leaves a gloss finish.  I then spray Figures in Comfort Matt Deluxe Varnish, works great but always leaves some little bits gloss, then have to spray again.
I thought I would try Winsor & Newton Galleria Matt Varnish for the little missed gloss bits, to my surprise it turned out gloss, am I doing something wrong, I was intending to use it for all over coverage on the days in UK, that I cannot spray.
I did shake it, and use only a small amount not thick coverage.


Steve M

Offline Cherno

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Re: Varnish Problems
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2015, 10:15:32 AM »
The only thing I can say is that I switched to using brush-on matt varnish after having experienced a near-disaster with the dreaded frosted effect from spray varnish.

Offline Drachenklinge

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Re: Varnish Problems
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2015, 10:18:55 AM »
You did check temperature? Mini and Spray not cold, not too moisture (rain, fog, even when used under a roof, the air might be too moist), due to outside using? Aimed not directly at miniature? Clear day? No direct sunlight?

Sometimes this little cap/spray-button (where the finger is put on) of the spray does not fit perfectly ... with some spray-types mine a constantly "glueing" tight, shut (dunno how to say ... clogged? blocked?) because the medium is filling the rim of the opening.
So, does it happen at the end of spraying or right from the start?


best wishes
Drachenklinge
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Offline steve29651

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Re: Varnish Problems
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2015, 10:23:30 AM »
After years of problems with sprays I only spray when conditions are right, it is now a problem with the brush on W&N varnish which turns out gloss.


Steve M

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Varnish Problems
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2015, 11:19:07 AM »
Very odd. I've been using W&N Galeria flat matt varnish for the last few years. Usually it has excellent covering power and will send even the shiniest miniature dead matt.

I have had trouble with an old bottle, half-full, which hadn't been used for a year or two. This had a tendency to leave slightly shiny patches. Perhaps the mattness deteriorates after a while unused in the bottle... I chucked it away, bought a new one, and have never had the same problem again.

You definitely need to slap it on pretty generously though - not so that it gathers and pools in crevices, which is an invitation to the dreaded 'white bloom' - but certainly don't brush it out too thinly over the surface of the figure. It needs a good coating. (In part because it's a water-based, not polyurethane-based varnish, so it's not as hard and its protective qualities are less good and less durable. So if your figures are going to get a lot of handling, you want them to have a generous coat of this varnish).

To guarantee maximum mattness, you should store the bottle upside down and as undisturbed as possible. Don't shake it.
When you want to varnish a figure, start to unscrew the bottle top in its upside-down position, only turning it the right way up at the last moment.
Now if you look inside the lid, you'll see that the 'thick stuff' has collected there - a much higher concentration of matting medium to carrier fluid, than if you take the varnish straight from the bottle.
If you feel it's too thick for you to apply as varnish (it shouldn't be, but if you prefer to thin it slightly for ease of application) just mix a few drops of clean water into that thick varnish that has gathered in the upturned lid, and off you go.
Apply generously, and try not to brush it out too much.
Unless you've got a duff bottle, that should give you a very nice matt finish.

Other points to note:
1. W&N Galeria starts to go off within 30 seconds of brushing it on. Which is another good reason to apply quickly and liberally.
If you try to brush it out after a minute or two, you will end up with gluey lumps, which you then have to wash off / brush away off the figure using a lot of clean water.
2. Conversely, although it starts to skin over almost immediately, it also takes a long time to dry completely - 24 hours if left alone in a cool room.
I tend to put a lamp on figures I have varnished, or pop them into the airing cupboard for a couple of hours to give some extra heat to speed up the drying process.
The problem is, if you try to handle them when they initially appear dry and flat matt, after say an hour, the varnish will still be soft and the handling combined with natural grease from the fingertips, will put shiny spots on raised areas.
So resist temptation, and do not handle for several hours if fast-drying, or for a whole day if just allowing nature to take its course...  :)

Good luck  8)

Offline Gary Peach

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Re: Varnish Problems
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2015, 01:17:34 PM »
Tem and damp can effect it.  If its a cold damp day I leave the figures on the radiator for short while...  I dont use dip but do use Citadel ink washes and have had the same issue.  I found even on 'thin' washes it could happen and have taken to leaving figures to dry for a day or 2 before sealing with matt.  I think its the shelack type base they all use, can react if not fully dry.  I use Plasti-cote (Valspar in Wicks in the UK).  The nozels give a fine spray too.  They only clog at the nozzle and can be cleaned with a pin.  It seems to be really satin for a couple of days and then goes really matt.

I have had the odd 'dust' speckle effect on really hot days when the first coat is not yet dry and the overspray drys before it lands.

Just done some real tests...  It happens in any weather and 1min to 3 days after painting...  Ive now found let the shaken can sit for a few mins.  it lets it all settle.  Spray in 1 direction 1 coat at a time, not a thick coat.  Can vary can to can...

« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 10:47:25 AM by Gary Peach »

Offline tin shed gamer

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Re: Varnish Problems
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2015, 11:10:43 PM »
I've recently used the GW hard coat(basically I was in a rush,and I'd run out of brush on)now I'm not a big fan of their prices but I have to say I was pleasantly surprised it's marketed as a semi satin varnish but a light coat came out Matt and complimented the blending far better than I thought it would.and it covered upwards of fifty figures including eight vehicles,and an airship all in 28mm.
All were painted/sprayed outdoors.with no milking or frosting so I can't complain.however I was subjected to a lecture on how to use the damed stuff whilst buying it. But if your not familiar with its pit falls the it could be helpful.
Mark.

Offline Paint Pig

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Re: Varnish Problems
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2015, 07:42:29 AM »
Make sure the tin/bottle is well shaken as the matting agent (talc in some cases) settles, in reality that is the only cause when a matte comes out shiny. The longer a container sits without being shaken the longer it takes to get it distributed through the varnish again. Remember to keep shaking the can if you are doing a big job.

For spray cans I like to keep the can in my pocket for around 5 min before I start using it to bring the temp up. Sometimes it is just too damp or cold to spray so leave it for another day.
must dash, people to be, places to free
Dave

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Offline cram

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Re: Varnish Problems
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2015, 06:50:49 PM »
I usually use Daler Rowney. I have used W&N Galleria in the past though, first bottle of matt I had gave me the gloss finish you mention, I returned it to the shop I bought it from and had a replacement bottle which gave me a really nice matt finish. Maybe its from a dodgy batch? I figured mine was as I followed the instructions with both bottles under the same conditions.

 

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