Using small figures for cover advantages

[JohnDSD2]

See the threadabout Demon in a bottle, perhaps that is an answer.

[Darkson71]

Not seeing a connection between "Demon in the Bottle" and a player using small models to hide from shooting?

[ragsthetiger]

First, I thnk the problem is complicated by the fact that warbands composed of goblins, hobbits, dwarves, and other small races are really perfectly valid concepts in a high fantasy setting, even if the person running them is doing it for a rules exploit. So there's a freedom of expression issue here, even if the freedom is being abused, which I agree it is.
Second, I also believe that the rule being exploited, a 50% coverage rule applied to the model, may be inherently problematic, since even minis of the same scale vary so much in size and pose.  Everyone who's ever played Necromunda can remember having arguments over this issue.  Perhaps the answer is to adopt a hard/soft cover system, where the cover material decides the modifier, rather than worrying about coverage percentages.  Of course, your opponent would have to agree to this, but I would suggest that if his choice is really an aesthetic one, and not meant for unfair advantage, that shouldn't be a problem.  If he insists on both his goblins AND his cover advantage, then I guess you know for sure what he's up to.  
There is an additional issue at work here, which is the lack of racial differences in Frostgrave.  In other systems, goblins would likely be paying some penalty in their stat profile which would balance the advantage of their small size.  But, this game has chosen not to differentiate between races, and that is probably too complex a subject to tackle with ad hoc table rules.  I would recommend trying out the hard/soft cover rule modification, which doesn't specifically benefit or penalize anyone on account of the race, or size, of their minis, assuming your opponent is actually willing to use a system that doesn't reward his lack of sportsmanship.
BTW, the thread on bottle demons included a discussion of using them to remedy competitive disadvantages, such as when facing a higher level warband, or in this instance, someone exploiting the rules for unfair advantage.  If you can't reason with your opponent, then go ahead and try something equally nasty to even the odds.
Thanks for listening,
rags

[Mr Vampire]

You should start playing with a largely oversized metal die and smash his figures to pieces. When he complains you can say "Sorry I thought the extra cover advantage they had would protect them".

 

[JohnDSD2]

Darkson The thread is about a warband with enough money or enough brew potion rolls equipping a large number of soldiers with Demon in a bottle. Said Demons are automatically bound to the warband so the Goblins would have to fight the original warband and their Demon helpers, just overwhelm them with numbers.

[JamWarrior]

As someone also using a goblin band, I would always work on the basis of making all LoS calls as if the figure were a normal sized human.

Alternate modelling is for fun, not for game advantage.

Explain this gently to him.  And if he still argues then play a 6mm scale band against him and see if he now gets the point!

[Fencing Frog]

We have several players who are using mousing in campaign... the thing to remember is that the height advantage works two ways.  If the figure can't bee seen because the terrain is to high it can be argued they can't see over the terrain either.  We have not found this to be a big issue in most cases, as in real in real life, being short or tall can be an advantage in the right situation, just as its a disadvantage in the wrong one.

[Stepman3]

Nothing stopping you from doing dwarfs...His warband seems legit. I would play against him. But if he says you cant see him due to the height of the terrain and cant shoot at him then he shouldn't be able to shoot at you because of the same restrictions...

[Darkson71]

If player A has a balanced warband (shooting and h-t-h) and player B has a h-t-h force only and is using small figures so A can't shoot at him, then yes, he's gaining an advantage.

[Aging Mammal]

If he wants to use small guys for cover reasons then they should find climbing harder and be generally slower as they have small arms and legs. Can't have it both ways.
It is the first step to opening up racial differences which is a bad idea as it adds complexity to an otherwise elegant game and can easily cause game balance problems.

[Awesome Adam]

Use taller terrain. 

[mcfonz]

This is where line of sight stuff can be difficult.

I've always played it that if you can see the models base you can see them, as the base represents the area they take up on the battle. Well, in terms of 'footprint' anyway. Height wise it's a tough call.

If people are going to play like that, I suggest you start laying your models on their sides behind walls, when they ask what they are doing - simply state that they are taking cover.

I am not the greatest fan of true line of sight for this reason. If you have modelled a really nice miniature on a base with a rock or perhaps something they are leaping over, it would make them taller. Of course in reality that rock doesn't follow them and they are not always leaping. I think it takes some common sense.

[Skipper]

Use taller terrain. 

I was thinking this too.   Make some taller walls that the big guys can see over but the little ones can't.  Pull them out only when you play him.  Especially if he has lots of archers.

Another option is to say that the goblins are so small that they do not block line of sight to his wizard and then eliminate the wizard.  If they are less than half his height,  how can they provide cover.

Truthfully though,  when these guys play locally,  I just refuse to play them.  Make it a point to let everyone else match up,  then go get something to drink (alcoholic or not).  Life is too short to waste on wankers like this.

Skipper

[PhilM]

Whoever is running the campaign could declare that the world of Frostgrave doesn't have Goblins and only Humans represented in 28mm Scale models can make up a warband?

[Bloodaxe]

I've been planning a Skaven ratmen warband in honor of my long retired Mordheim warband.  Did height have anything to do with it? Not in the slightest. I'm certainly not a WAAC, Win at all costs player.  Will it really be that big of an advantage?  I doubt Games Workshop will be that much smaller then Reaper figures.