Any Plastics for Sub/Late Roman Brits?

[JW. Akers]

I'm also disappointed in the unarmored/armored/archer ratio. Nevertheless, I'll probably reward GB's tricky business ploy by
purchasing a couple of boxes. Speaking of tricky practices. I live in the States and GB's shipping is 25% of the order. Years ago that was not the case. When they licensed  Gripping Beast USA the shipping went up in, I suppose, an effort to encourage North American customers to patronize their American licensee. After GB USA went out of business, I emailed the Beast to enquire if shipping would then be reduced. As I recall, I was told that shipping to the States would remain at 25%
So, North Americans pay 125% for GB figs, not to mention the Pound to Dollar exchange rate. Needless to say, I have curtailed my purchases from GB.
But, the pics of the standard bearer and my enthusiasm for Late Romans have sold me on buying these figs.

[TWD]

... but then again the newest (metal) Late Roman range from Paul Hicks has them too.

So they do, hadn't even noticed that.
Seems odd to me, but maybe it was more historically prevalent than I previously thought

I must say I would have preferred slightly more in the way of armoured bodies 8 just seems too few per box, maybe they could have had 8 unarmoured spears or archers instead.

I imagine that it's to make a force for SAGA. A single unit of 8 archers with the rest making units of 4, 8 or 12 spearmen. I expect the basic SAGA Roman force can be made with a single box.

[delbruck]

The basic problem is they have combined too many different elements: armored foot, unarmored foot, and (two) shooting archers in a small sprue of only five figures. Either the sprues need to contain more figures, or something (the archers) should be in a different box.

The release reminds me of Warlord's pre-1812 French Napoleonic infantry. This sprue contins four figures, one of which is elite. If you build a 24 figure battalion, all 8 of your elites will be the same figure. Clearly, the Warlord sprue should contain 2 elites and four line infantry. One has to wonder what they were thinking

Despite any complaints I might have, I am certainly happy to have a box of plastic Late Romans..

[Timbor]

I'm also disappointed in the unarmored/armored/archer ratio. Nevertheless, I'll probably reward GB's tricky business ploy by
purchasing a couple of boxes. Speaking of tricky practices. I live in the States and GB's shipping is 25% of the order. Years ago that was not the case. When they licensed  Gripping Beast USA the shipping went up in, I suppose, an effort to encourage North American customers to patronize their American licensee. After GB USA went out of business, I emailed the Beast to enquire if shipping would then be reduced. As I recall, I was told that shipping to the States would remain at 25%
So, North Americans pay 125% for GB figs, not to mention the Pound to Dollar exchange rate. Needless to say, I have curtailed my purchases from GB.
But, the pics of the standard bearer and my enthusiasm for Late Romans have sold me on buying these figs.

Keep in mind, though, that GB is one of the minority of retailers that actually remove VAT automatically for international customers.  I know of several UK companies that charge 25% overseas shipping, and still charge VAT to overseas customers.  I would imagine they pocket the extras.

[Dawnbringer]

Keep in mind, though, that GB is one of the minority of retailers that actually remove VAT automatically for international customers.  I know of several UK companies that charge 25% overseas shipping, and still charge VAT to overseas customers.  I would imagine they pocket the extras.

Yeah. Perry's also don't charge the VAT so the 20% shipping charge is just a wash. As I'm from Canada even ordering from the States shipping is expensive. And I don't want to hear anyone else complain about exchange rates... :p

[gmillar]

The amount of wasted space and severe lack of spare parts on this sprue makes me sad. Why bother paying the huge cost of tooling a steel mold for something like this? They could have easily fit twice as many components on this sprue. It's almost like they don't understand the benefits of plastic at all. I don't mind the actual sculpts at all, but I feel that the overall design of this kit is poor.

[Captain Blood]

The amount of wasted space and severe lack of spare parts on this sprue makes me sad. Why bother paying the huge cost of tooling a steel mold for something like this? They could have easily fit twice as many components on this sprue. It's almost like they don't understand the benefits of plastic at all.

Exactly. I don't think they do understand the appeal of plastics. The first couple of GB sets (Vikings and Saxons) were pretty good - a good selection of different bodies, lots of head options, a wide variety of arms and weapons, plus some nice extra accoutrements.

Since then, starting with the generic Dark Age warriors (just 5 different bodies) going on to the Arab sets, and now these Late Romans, the GB sets have got worse and worse to the point where (whether you like the sculpts or not) it's pretty apparent that they have included the minimum amount of components possible, and are barely genuinely multipart at all.

I think this is because where the Perry (and Victrix) mindset is 'let's include as much as we can, to give people the scope to mix and match and create a wide range of different / unique figures from this set', the GB mindset is 'let's include the minimum possible, because it's not about letting people create variety - just about getting a shedload of (relatively) cheap figures onto the table to bulk out an army'.

To be fair, another factor is that the Perrys don't have to pay for sculpting. They do it themselves, so they can afford to invest as much time as they want to in creating as many components as they desire to fill out a new kit. I get the impression that GB and some other plastic entrants, go for the least amount of sculpted components they think they can get away with, in the interests of minimising the sculpting (and perhaps also the tooling) bill?

At the end of the day though, it's just about value for money. Never mind that the quality of the Perry plastic sculpts is immeasurably superior - the plain fact is, a box of plastic soldiers costs around 20 quid, whoever it comes from.
In terms of value for money, a twenty pound Perry box is crammed with a 12 - 15 different bodies and literally hundreds of  head / arms / weapons / accoutrement components to choose from.
A twenty pound GB box has half a dozen different bodies and hardly any choice of components.
Do the math, as they say.

Just as an example - on the comically empty frame shown above - why model the arms attached to the bodies, when those arms could have been provided separately for the modeller to choose where and how to put them? It's just odd.
 
As you say, I don't think they understand the appeal and benefit of plastics. Or at least, they have a very different idea about what that appeal is.

[NurgleHH]

To be fair, another factor is that the Perrys don't have to pay for sculpting. They do it themselves, so they can afford to invest as much time as they want to in creating as many components as they desire to fill out a new kit. I get the impression that GB and some other plastic entrants, go for the least amount of sculpted components they think they can get away with, in the interests of minimising the sculpting (and perhaps also the tooling) bill?

On the buisiness-side it does not matter, because the perrys also need to calculate the time of sculpting to get their loan. Only advantage for the perrys is, that everybody wants their stuff and will wait.

Sometimes I think GB often ignore the high standard which we are now living with. It is very sad when you see good kits like the saxons and vikings and the newer seems to downgrade in quality again.

One question, Richard: How is the quality of Fireforge?

[Captain Blood]

Fireforge are not bad - just my opinion, obviously. Some parts better than others. I think they use Bob Naismith to sculpt too, but (if so) his work for them seems to have a bit more finesse than his more recent efforts for GB. The style of the sculpting is just finer, with less clunky undercuts and so on. The figures are less chunky all round. Plus points - the great bulk of the assorted FF medieval bodies, cloaks, shields, horse bodies, and all the enclosed knightly heads are all really good. Minus points - the weapons are too fantasy-outsized for my tastes - although this has improved quite a lot in the later FF sets. Much more proportionate. The horse heads look like grinning skulls - not very good. Some of the open faced helmeted heads are slightly outsized / cartoony - not to my tastes anyway, but as ever, a huge amount of this comes down to personal preference for style. In terms of the mix of components, not quite as generous with parts as the Perrys, but still genuinely multipart, and with a great deal more choice and options in each and every set than in the recent GB sets.
I'd put the Perrys at 5 star, and Fireforge at approaching 4 star.

[Nord]

I think for gamers of the Early Roman period this set will be welcomed. The figures work out at 50p each. That's a heck of a lot cheaper than the metal counterparts. As a gamer, I would be asking myself do I want to buy an average sculpt in few poses in plastic at 50p a pop, or an average sculpt in few poses in metal at £1.50/£2 a pop? Do the math indeed.

Apparently there are cavalry on the way too, so if I was considering this period I would hold back a little and see how they shape up.

I did also see in the news somewhere that Studio Tomahawk are preparing a Saga book for this era, due out probably next year. For the gamers in the community this is all good news I would have thought.

[Aventine]

Those prices for metals are a bit misleading, I know of a place you can get them much cheaper than that, eg £1.13 to just under a pound depending on how many you buy....

Cheers
Keith

[Nord]

Foundry are 8 for £12 = £1.50 each.
Footsore are 4 for £6 = £1.50 each.
Curteys have a unit deal of 24 for £27 = £1.13 each.
Crusader are 8 for £9 = £1.13 each.

Dunno of any others. Even if you can get just under a pound, it's still twice as much. These prices are more than twice or even thrice as expensive as the GB figures and look a similar standard to me.  I reckon my point stands, though eye of the beholder and all that. If I gamed this period I would certainly look at the GB stuff, there's nothing amazingly better available and you certainly cannot beat the price.

The box composition may well have the upcoming Saga Late Roman game in mind.

[Mad Doc Morris]

Being interested in gaming and affordable toys myself, I'd still prefer a set which makes better use of the given medium/material. This set is neither as versatile nor as accurate as it could and perhaps should be. I find this slightly surprising, given GB's back catalogue of well-researched and nicely sculpted alternatives in metal as well as the ever-improving standards of (some of) their competitors in the historical plastics market.
If gaming were all about prices, though, we had to include offerings in smaller scales. Pendraken produces a marvellous Late Roman range in 10mm (for the record: about £0.17 per infantry figure), and I'm sure there are advocates of great yet inexpensive figures in 15, 6 or even 2mm.

[Aventine]

Nord

I agree that at 50p you get 2 for 1. If you like plastic better than metal then you are well in, it is as always up to each of us as to whether 50p for a plastic figure is better than £1.00 for a metal one in the long run. This debate can go on and on...

Cheers

Keith

[georgec]

Those prices for metals are a bit misleading, I know of a place you can get them much cheaper than that, eg £1.13 to just under a pound depending on how many you buy....

Cheers
Keith

So crack on with those late Romans/ early Byzantines.... 👍