Dragon Rampant - Rules question: Undead

[Elbows]

While discussing Dragon Rampant with a friend we ran into a small rules query.  Would like to see if anyone has a solid answer, or at least gather opinions.  Unfortunately the rule is worded oddly.

(This is not verbatim wording, but my explanation of the rule)

A unit with the Undead special rule counts its Courage as 0.  Thus, it cannot be battered.  The rule then goes on to state that hits are rounded up (as opposed to down) when this unit is attacked.  The example given however, adds more confusion.  It states that rolling attacks against an Armour 2 unit, three hits would result in two casualties instead of one.  Fair enough.

How does this work with Armour 3 or 4 units?  With the normal rules, seven hits against an Armour 4 unit would result in one kill, as the extra three hits are wasted.  We all agreed that seven hits would kill two Armour 4 units, if Undead.  What about five hits?

In the end we decided to go with mathematical rounding up.  We thought that a single extra hit killing another model was a bit too much of a penalty.  How are others playing this?  When we played, a few units had Armor 3, so we required at least two spare hits to claim another model.  How have you folks been doing it? 

[beefcake]

Good question. I'd stick to mathematical rounding myself. Do the non undead rules refer to the excess dice as being rounded down? I can't remember, if they refer as 7 being rounded down to 4 as opposed to up to 8 then logic would assume that a 5 would be rounded up to 8 instead of down to 4. I'd stick with the mathematical rounding though as other would seem very unbalanced.

[Sunjester]

We are just playing the rules as written (we have not found them oddly worded). Normally all hits are rounded down, so excess hits are wasted. By that token, for Undead, as the rules say hits are rounded up then the same criteria applies, ie just one excess hit is enough to inflict another kill. If you do not use "mathematical rounding" when rounding down, why suddenly introduce it for rounding up?

Units using the Undead rule are also immune to becoming battered, which is a very powerful benefit for no extra point cost. The rounding up of hits is a way of balancing that benefit. I think it would be more unbalancing to reduce the negative aspect of the rule whilst keeping the positive.

[Elbows]

You guys aren't helping!   

Essentially, as we understand it, yes all excess hits are rounded down.  We just feel that rounding a single hit up is almost too powerful (despite the advantages of being Undead).  I do think, as strictly worded it is as Sunjester stated.  I was just wondering how other folks are doing it.

[audrey]

The whole reason it came up during the game (being Elbows opponent) was if the undead rule was played as written, 1 extra hit kills another model, it pushes you to never bring Armour 4 models and possibly no armour 3 models in an undead army. Granted it is a choice a players to make, but most Armour 4 models only have 6 strength points. You are pretty much guaranteed to lose 1-2 models per combat.

-A

[beefcake]

yep. Even the weakest rabble would kill 1 armour 4 unit guaranteed each turn. Worse yet if the rabble is undead also as no one would get battered.

[Elbows]

That was the issue.  It would prevent someone from running Undead Elite Riders etc.  Or make it far less appealing.  I'm comfortable going with mathematical rounding to encourage it (as it's still just as effective against lesser armoured guys).

Just wondering how other people were doing it, or if we'd read it all completely wrong.

[Vulture]

Hi Elbows

My gaming group haven't used Undead yet, although some will be fielded shortly.  We'll be rounding the casualties up as per the other posters. 

Vulture

[wulfgar22]

I'm with Sunjester. We've played a couple of games with and Undead Warband vs a Barbarian one and played as per the rules. The rounding up of the damage balances out the not becoming battered.

[Argonor]

Just throwing in a line to be able to follow the thread - I am awaiting delivery Dragon Rampant (and Blood Eagle), hopefully during next week.

[religon]

Apologies for the thread necromancy, but there is a small overlooked item.

Undead "may take 'No Feelings' for no cost." 'No Feelings' is the rule that grants the Courages of 0+ and ignoring Battered results.

An army of undead may have undead units with 'No Feelings' and those without. For Undead Knights with Armor of 4, I choose not to opt for 'No Feelings.' Such knight use the standard Courage rules and can become Battered. If they had 'No Feeling' only 5 hits would eliminate 2 Strength as I play it.

The knights that don't benefit from 'No Feelings' does benefit from 'Unstoppable March of the Dead.' The leader allows the knights to avoid Courage tests for last remaining unit on the field, death of a leader and when the warband is reduced to 50% of their point value.