The Men Who Would be Kings rulebook

[RedRowan]

Got home to find my copy had arrived today, great service from Northstar.

Book looks very nice, similar layout and style to Lion Rampant so anyone who owns those rules will know what to expect. Looking forward to reading through it this weekend.

Steve

[Ray Earle]

Looks like mine has arrived too. 

[guitarheroandy]

Lucky you!! I'll not be getting mine for a while, as it's coming from Osprey.

I'll be interested to see how it compares to my final play test copy (obviously it'll be prettier!!)

[gorillacrab]

You gentlemen are fortunate as the official release date is Sept 20. It will be interesting to hear your reports as most of us peasants await the later date. Congo and TMWWBK, quite a time for pith helmets.

[SteveBurt]

The mechanisms look interesting.
Activation depends on the unit's leadership value ( 5 to 8 ).
Unlike Lion Rampant, a failed activation does not end your turn.
Better disciplined units get a bonus. Some units get 'free' actions (firing for regulars, moving for tribal infantry).
Regulars can form close order and use Volley fire - at close range only. Close order troops are more vulnerable to firing.
You roll as many dice as there are figures in the unit (another change from LR).
Long range acts like armour - need 2 hits to cause a casualty.
Cover also acts like armour in the same way.

[Sir Rodney Ffing]

Steve - interesting comments, thank you.

Can you tell me what unit size the rules envisage and whether there is a typical number of units per side?  I am wondering how these would differ from Congo, other than the scale represented and the size of the table required.

[SteveBurt]

Regular infantry have 12 figures, cavalry 8.
Irregular infantry 12
Tribal infantry 16
Crewed weapons all have 4 crew
None of those numbers are critical - as it says if your regulars are organised in 10s and your tribes in 15s that will work.

A regular infantry unit is 6 points - so a typical 24 point force could be 4 regular infantry units - 48 figures
Tribal infantry are either 3 or 4 points (I think 4 - forgotten which), so you'd need 6 or 8 units - up to 128 figures.

The book does also contain a variant using half sized units, and of course if you use a roster it doesn't actually matter how many figures you use.

There's also a solo opponent 'Mr Babbage' in the book, which can also be used for games for everyone plays Europeans against a Native Horde, or vice-versa.

[guitarheroandy]

Regular infantry have 12 figures, cavalry 8.
Irregular infantry 12
Tribal infantry 16
Crewed weapons all have 4 crew
None of those numbers are critical - as it says if your regulars are organised in 10s and your tribes in 15s that will work.

A regular infantry unit is 6 points - so a typical 24 point force could be 4 regular infantry units - 48 figures
Tribal infantry are either 3 or 4 points (I think 4 - forgotten which), so you'd need 6 or 8 units - up to 128 figures.

The book does also contain a variant using half sized units, and of course if you use a roster it doesn't actually matter how many figures you use.

There's also a solo opponent 'Mr Babbage' in the book, which can also be used for games for everyone plays Europeans against a Native Horde, or vice-versa.

And of course, you can upgrade or downgrade units too using various options (some of which we even make up ourselves in our games), with corresponding extra/reduced points, depending on the effect you want to have. You really can tailor your forces to the theatre you are working with... The author positively encourages this. He likes gamers to interact with his rules and make them work in the way that the gamers themselves enjoy the most. It's the flexibility this creates, along with simple, yet effective rules systems and period 'feel' that make these rules work so well in my opinion.

[Sir Rodney Ffing]

Steve and Andy - thanks both for your answers, which are helpful.  TMWWBK is on my list of 'things to buy when I see it at a show' so I dare say I will get a copy in due course.  And perhaps even get to play a game if I ever make it along to see what the Peterborough club is like  But as I am just starting another project (BoB), Pathans etc will have to wait for a while.

[RedRowan]

Managed to have a quick read through myself last night and the rules seem fairly straight forward. Happy to see it looks to be pretty easy to tailor the forces too. Had originally intended to use these rules for the 2nd Afghan War but some recent purchases from the Perry's new Cape Wars range might of changed that!

Steve

[Jeff965]

Played a few games now, my only real gripe is that I think the leadership activation score needs to be based more on historical precedent rather than leaving it to Lady Luck. You really can get a duff Field Force by rolling bad activation rolls.
If your units are activated on a 7+ or 8+ and are the attackers in a scenario you have no chance. My Garibaldini suffered from this and the game was a little slow to the point that the defending Neapolitans decided to go on the attack.
Other than that I really like these rules and I'm going to take them further by forgetting points values and fighting the scenarios from the Skirmish Campaigns scenario booklets, these were originally written for The Sword and the Flame rules but they should work fine for these rules.
Also I think these rules will work for other periods other than those intended such as the black powder periods (just thinking outside the box).
It's another thumbs up from me for another set of Dan Mersey rules (I'm turning into a fanboy dammit)

[gorillacrab]

Played a few games now, my only real gripe is that I think the leadership activation score needs to be based more on historical precedent rather than leaving it to Lady Luck. You really can get a duff Field Force by rolling bad activation rolls.
If your units are activated on a 7+ or 8+ and are the attackers in a scenario you have no chance. My Garibaldini suffered from this and the game was a little slow to the point that the defending Neapolitans decided to go on the attack.
Other than that I really like these rules and I'm going to take them further by forgetting points values and fighting the scenarios from the Skirmish Campaigns scenario booklets, these were originally written for The Sword and the Flame rules but they should work fine for these rules.
Also I think these rules will work for other periods other than those intended such as the black powder periods (just thinking outside the box).
It's another thumbs up from me for another set of Dan Mersey rules (I'm turning into a fanboy dammit)

Jeff,
As some of us await for our newly ordered books, this is a very interesting observation. One of the few gripes about the original Lion Rampant was over games stalling due to bad activation rolls (although that is where the dramatic friction comes from!) Dan Mersey clearly partially addressed this by changing the rules, allowing a side to continue testing even after 1-2 units failed to activate (and by allowing some kinds of activations to be automatic for specific units). But, yes, needing 7s and especially 8s to activate units for an attacker can be rough. I can see players opting to tweak those numbers - and not leaving it to chance to determine a leader's level - to keep the game flowing. (That said it can be tough to judge a game system after just 1-2 games, depending on the luck of the rolls.)
Otherwise good to read the rest of the rules are to your liking - looking forward to getting our own.
- Walt

[Kamandi]

Good observation Walt. I'm also waiting for my copy to arrive. There are plenty of colonial scenarios that would be fun. I'm considering a Martian adaptation, The Men Who Would Be Jeddaks. It should be easy enough adapt Dragon Rampant's reduced figure unit principle to allow green martians and giant monsters.

- Fletch

[guitarheroandy]

Don't forget that some troops can be upgraded which enhances their discipline rating. This affects your activation roll, as if you have leadership 6 and +2 discipline, you only need to roll 4 or more to activate (4+2 =6, obviously). This can make a big difference...

[gorillacrab]

Good observation Walt. I'm also waiting for my copy to arrive. There are plenty of colonial scenarios that would be fun. I'm considering a Martian adaptation, The Men Who Would Be Jeddaks. It should be easy enough adapt Dragon Rampant's reduced figure unit principle to allow green martians and giant monsters.

- Fletch

Hi Fletch,
Thanks - and one of the posters says there are rules in the MWWBK book for reduced units - something I will also be looking at.