Ideas for interesting 1450-1500 projects?

[Charlie_]

Here's the thing - I'm not particularly interested in refighting the great battles of history. For example, the idea of working on an Agincourt project and painting up all the nobles and commanders who were there does not appeal to me, nor does a Wars Of the Roses project focusing on all the big names.

I prefer to make up my own characters so I'm not constrained by history - fictional characters in a historical setting.

My current project is actually a fantasy one, a Game of Thrones thing. But stylistically its the late 15th century, the only 'fantasy' thing really being the heraldry and flags.

But I'm thinking about ways to re-purpose the project for a real world historical setting. The vast bulk of the miniatures can be used as they for the rank and file, so it will just be a case of painting up new commanders, flags and such. And thus this collection can be used for both historical and fantasy settings.

Anyway, I'm looking for an interesting setting I could use for relatively small-scale conflicts (or large skirmish if you prefer, say 100 or so models a side). Something where I can create my own characters and devise some heraldry without stepping on the toes of real history.

The most obvious solution would be a small private conflict set in the Wars of the Roses timeframe, with plenty of opportunity for neighbours going to war with eachother. But as I don't just wanna be painting longbowmen for ever, I'd like to cast the net a bit wider and perhaps look at some subjects I'm currently not so familiar with, roughly within the 1450-1500 timeframe (using Perry Miniatures).

Here are some ideas I've had....

1 - Private war. Neighbouring nobles settling an old feud, perhaps taking sides on the Lancastrian / Yorkist divide.

2 - Scottish border. Cross-border raids and brawls up north. This is something I don't know too much about.... I know the big battles (Stirling Bridge, Falkirk, Bannockburn, Flodden), but am not too knowledgeable on all the 'low-level' warfare that happened between these big ones. How much fighting went on during the Wars Of The Roses, or post-Bosworth perhaps? Would Scottish armies of this time be noticeably different to the English? Would this be a good setting to create some minor nobility and border lords, with little excuse needed for armed conflict?

3 - End of the Hundred Years War. The last few years of the conflict, which saw France finally kick the English back home. Again, I know about the big battles... how much skirmishing, raiding and such went on as the French were regaining territory? I'm guessing quite a lot. The English could be cast as the villains here....

4 - An englishman abroad. A mercenary company led by an exiled English knight / adventurer, perhaps the bastard son of an undisclosed lord off to make his fortune. His adventures could take him all across Europe (no doubt with plenty of time in Italy). This could be very flexible and give me opportunities for painting up pretty much everything.. Italians, Swiss, etc.... He can both be fighting them and employing them. And his own company could change a lot over a few years, meaning he could be leading an entirely different force for every game.

And I could combine some of these ideas. Perhaps the mercenary is the brother of the low-ranking noble back home getting involved with the WOTR? Perhaps he comes back at some point to try and take the family estate by force? I wouldn't want the same showdown between the same characters for every game, so this has its appeal.

Also I've been rethinking the sort of games I actually want. I'm thinking something close to 1:1 ratio, so when I say 100 models a side that's what it means. The models are based individually, and can either be in open formation units or formed up in ranks where necessary. I'd like to keep it somewhat realistic though, so the larger scale 'battles' won't be featuring divisions and multiple blocks of troops, but rather maybe one central 'block' (about 50 men) with smaller support units of light cavalry, archers, etc. This will be on an 8' by 4' table.
What ranking of English nobility would be able to call on 100 men for his little private war?


Anyway, these are some thoughts I've been having and I'd be interested in hearing your input!
Any good ideas for small-scale warfare in the 1450-1500 period, without stepping on the toes of real history?
Anyone have some good info on the Scottish border, english mercenaries on the continent, the end of the HYW, and confllcts in the WOTR away from the big decisive battles?

[fred]

Those all seem good ideas.

I'm currently reading about the lead up to the WoTR and it sounds like there was plenty of score settling going on - especially as you get to the fringes of England. At this time France was trying hard to regain territories in France back from England, so again plenty of skirmishes and small battles.

As you say a mercenary band lets you roam across Europe. I assume to save endlessly having to paint new figures you will want to have several battles in an area, before moving on.

[Captain Blood]

1 - Private war. Neighbouring nobles settling an old feud, perhaps taking sides on the Lancastrian / Yorkist divide.

That's what I do.

[aphillathehun]

Your ideas sound good.  Courtenay/Bonville feud, Neville/Percy feud.  Good stuff.

One other idea: I have a book about a Venetian raider on the Turkish coast that was pretty interesting.  You'd have to do Ottomans though.  If you're interested I can find the title on the weekend.

[WillieB]

If I can ever find the necessary info and figures I really want to do a Constantinople 1453 scenario.
Some of the defenders can be simply like western men at arms but the 'local' Eastern Romans are something else again. And of course you would have to do the Turks. But what a magnificent spectacle it would be!

[commissarmoody]

They had demised a lot in power and where not as violent, but I was thinking of bringing back the riots at Bury St Edmunds, with a very militant Abbot and have my family (who didn't even get a mention until Henry the 8th) fight it out.
Family would be the traditional long bow/men at arms host and the Monks would be armed with crossbows, more armor and handguns.

Also thought of doing some thing biased off of a fictionalized Las Vegas in a 1450s medieval era. with major cities in Nevada and California being city states.

[GamesPoet]

By keeping it small scale, the fighting wasn't recorded much if at all in the history books.

[Arlequín]

Almost all the disputes of the Wars of the Roses era were largely scuffles, affrays and name-calling; even the Neville-Perry dispute was notable for its lack of bloodshed. Where there were battles like Nibley Green, they were one-off fights that might not be avenged for a decade or more. So while you could justify a bash between rival English families or affinities, they are slow burners and usually stamped-out by the local authority figure.

The Anglo-Scots border would be more productive, but again efforts by the respective wardens were aimed at keeping things 'under the radar', so as not to provoke a real war and/or their replacement by someone who could do a better job.

If you want a fertile area for combat, Germany is the place I think. As far as I know there were still robber barons and wannabees trying to carve out petty empires in the mid to late 15th Century. Not Germany precisely, but this guy might be an exemplar for you; William de la Marck. Forces tend to be more balanced in terms of troops too.

[bluechi]

Why not old zurich war ? Many different characters, lords, citys....a lot to plunder

[von Lucky]

If you want a fertile area for combat, Germany is the place I think.

My first thought was of the struggle between two archbishops (Diether von Isenburg and Adolf II von Nassau) for Mainz:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainz#Christian_Mainz

Plenty of bloody feuds in the HRE that weren't slow burners.

[bluechi]

You mean the mainzer stiftsfede/badisch-pfälzer krieg ?

That was a small campaign like the waldshuter krieg....but interresting characters who fought later in the burgundian wars with the swiss .

A lot of robbery action in the beautifull southwest between alsace-black forest-sundgau-lake constanz
Bigerli von Heudorf ;-) for example

Or the mainzer-hessischer krieg ?

[Arlequín]

Then there are the Guelderland Wars, the Frisian Rebellion and the Saxon Feud, which while they were predominantly 16th Century small wars, had their origins in the 15th.

Ghent's Revolt of 1449-53 gives food for thought, as well as the appearance of English mercenaries.

It's no accident that GW heavily based the Empire and Marienburg on the real history of the Medieval Low Countries and Germany, although kudos to them for weaving in characters like Nieut Gingrijk too. Trawling through old WFRPG sites is always fruitful for ideas. Then there is the concept behind LAM's own Bruegelburg range; a one horse (and a rented one at that) town that has to deal with unruly peasants and grasping nobles in its hinterland.

If you're looking at 100 figures or so as a force, then that is pretty much the household and tenants etc of a poor knight or lord, or the useful manpower of a reasonable size market town (c. 3,000 pop). 10% covers men at arms, a further 20% would be middle class armoured shooters and fighters with horses. Maybe 30% reliable footmen and the remaining 40% somewhat less so. In desperation a further 100 figures could be available, but you would really be scraping the barrel if you raised these. The deeper you go into that barrel, the more bruised is the fruit.

I've been contemplating a similar thing myself, set within the Low Countries after Charles the Bold, but it's a far bigger canvas than I'll ever need myself.

[JollyBob]

I'm planning a small project to build a 1450's Wallachian/Transylvanian army for Lion Rampant.

For "planning", read "buying stuff, looking at it and putting it in a box".

I am mainly using Perry figures, a mix of their Agincourt and WOTR/European Armies ranges to get a nice mx of arms and armour. From what I've been able to piece together it seems the armour styles I Eastern Europe were slightly outdated by western standards and using all three ranges should make for some interesting figures.

Plus the Balkans have never not been at war with someone, giving opponents from the HRE, Poland, Russia, Hungary, Italian mercenaries, and of course the perennial threat of the Turks and occasional crusades drawing in troops from all over Europe.

I hope I will actually get some of this done and painted at some point soon, but it's such a mad, confused period that I reckon you could mine it for scenarios for years.

[vcina]

Most of the battles in Italy during this time period are small city-state vs. city-state type battles.  You  could throw in the Pope and Holy Roman Emperor as guiding hands for those forces as well.

[von Lucky]

You mean the mainzer stiftsfede/badisch-pfälzer krieg ?

Thanks for all the German names - makes it easy to finD more information now!