Insantiy rules for the tabletop (45A, Operator5)

[Prof. Dietrich Hes]

Operator5 wrote:

Insanity Causing: Models with this ability are beyond human comprehension. As such, their appearance can drive men mad. If a model gets within 6" of a model with this ability, they must make a BR test. If they fail, their BR score is reduced by 1. When it reaches 0, the model has gone insane. If they pass the BR test, then the model does not need to take the test again for this Insanity Causing model.

Models that are Insane must roll on this reaction table at the beginning of their activation.

1: Attack the nearest model in close combat
2: Move full movement + expend one hero point to move an additional 1" (if the team still has hero points) back toward the team's starting point
3: Move full movement in a random direction (1-3 forward, 4-6 left, 7-9 right, 10 back).
4-10: Model acts normally.

Models that have gone insane have their BR score rturned to normal, but on a BR test if the player roles a 1 for the model, it is considered a success (the insanity lead to the right answer in a roundabout way).

..............

I like this an it will be easy to implement.  my thought was to combine the Brain and Guts score from 45A to give a character (in)sanity score.  this can be tracked like any other stat in the game, but the only thing that reduces it would be encounters with "Insanity Causing" creatures or certain encounter markers (i.e. open door and see a corpse). you still test versus "Brains" to see what happens though.

I think going with a little bit higher of a number than just "Brains" can be a bit more fun and add even more "strength" to certain monsters.  seeing a ghoul might make you pee your pants but seeing a dark young can give you a heart attack.  this can give certain creatures a bit more of a boost in the game. it can also make for some intersting situations if a grade 1 opens the door or a grade 3.  it can really force the player to consider who is doing what.  

Thanks Rich

[PeteMurray]

A couple of things--keeping in mind Steve's idea that a ghoul is not as mind-wreaking as a Great Race of Yith (or a Tax Accountant), maybe tie in the creature's Grade to the number of BR points lost. Therefore, if a GRY is a Grade 3, and you fail your Insanity check, you lose 3 Brain points.

The other option would be to have Insanity stackable--for each Ability point spent on Insanity, the target loses another BR point. So on the archetype sheet it would be "Insanity (-X BR) (1 per -1)"

[Operator5]

The BR test is only for the model being driven mad. If you combine Brain and Guts, then the models get tougher. By just using BR the Grade 1s and 1/2s will go first. And by doing it this way, I can add two additional skills.

Eldritch Horror (+X): Models with this ability are so bizarre that they drive men mad faster. Subtract the number from the die roll of any character takeing an Insanity check.

Bravery over Brains: Models with this ability are able to shake off the bizarre easier as they have steeled themselves against the supernatural, as such, they can use their GUTS score instead of their BRAINS score when making an Insanity check.

Look at this, the horror title is getting written right before your eyes!

 

[PeteMurray]

Look at this, the horror title is getting written right before your eyes!
 

Run everyone! Run while you still can! You know not the horrors that await those who dare to write for Ric*****NO CARRIER*****

[Prof. Dietrich Hes]

Rich,
 Just out of curiosity, would you use the "Brain" as the stat for both sanity and the regualr way at the same time, or would they be seperate?  If I got a knock on the head and saw a ghoul, would I be more inclined to run?  Granted it could be my bias talking but I think I would like to have them seperate.  I'd just like you to clarfiy that.

and going back to the combined stat, and using either the grade or "Eldritch" stat (great idea).  if you make a monster that winds up being a level 3 (either grade or horror stat)  then even a grade 3 character would run quick.  

Grade 3 have an average of 4 brain, 11 combined
Grade 2 have an average of 3 Brain, 9 combined
Grade 1 have an average of 2 Brain, 7 combined


My thought of the sanity, would be for more of a campaign setting versus the single game, as that is how I view your game anyway, and what I would like to incorporate into my (your) horror game. My view is the sanity does not recoup after a game.  that is why I would want to boost it to a better level.  If the adventure were to take place on the average 3 ro 4 boards during a game then it would be hard to have such a low level as a start point.  

And using your comment regarding more stats for the horror version.  Use "Occult" from Bjorn.  this can increase the Sanity score to make it higher.  

using a scenario like "A crack'd and crook'd manse" there are lots of little things that happen before you even see the creature and try to defeat him.  Even to the little things like when the door opens and the reporter is standing there with an ax, you should make a sanity check versus brain., or finding the monks hole.  its the little things like that that I would like to see in the rules.

and if the horror version is being written before our very eyes, when will it be published??   :mrgreen:   I have alot of hand written stuff right now for the rules.  Are you interested in seeing them?

[PeteMurray]

For the Horror rules, I could see Sanity as an attribute tied to the Head location, independent of Brains.

This would also let you add abilities that boost Sanity stats and Flaws that detract from it. For example

Ability: Strong Minded (+X) (1 per +1). Models with this ability can quell their fears and face greater horrors than the average person. For every point spent on Strong Minded, that model's SN score increases by 1.

Ability: Snap Out of It!: This model helps his friends resist terror and the mind-bending influences of the eldrich. By expending 1 Hero Point, this model can let any model within 6" test on its SN score instead of its own.

Flaw: On The Fine Line: This model's genius has come at the cost of slowly eroding his or her sanity. The player may add any number of points to this model's BR score, but must deduct that number from the SN score as well.

Flaw: Fascination: This model is drawn to the occult like a moth to a flame. Any time this model observes an occult act or creature, it must make a SN test or miss its next action as it stands and stares.

[Prof. Dietrich Hes]

Pete,
  I'm not sure I agree.  I see it as more of a combined stat (+/- something).  I just dont see how if I knocked you in the face how that would affect your sanity.  

There I go again about punching you in the face   ::  

I guess this is one of those cases wher a playtest can be done with a few different ways and then use the best case.

I have to run soon to get some things done, but we should definatly start making a stats list in some sort of document.  If I get a chance, I can start that later.

at this pace, the horror version will be out before the "Lost worlds" version  

[Mo]

I'm going to throw a big wrench in the whole works.  It seems to me the smarter you are (i.e. BR score), the MORE likely you would be to pop a cork if you saw something that didn't make sense to you. (that's impossibleeeeee!)

The lower BR score couldn't comprehend the stituation well enough to go insane.

It's my two cents worth that insanity must be attached to guts or a new attribute all together

[Operator5]

Well, I'm not sold on the new attribute. If I did that I wold have to add it to all the archetypes and I'm not sure that it's needed.

Now, as for the smarter you are, the more likely to go insane you are....

I look at it as these creatures cause terror on a primal level, animals know to stay away from them. The smell of evil is palpable on them. But smarter men have studied them and know that they are creatures just like anything else and can be beaten, and they hold their primal urges in check. Sometimes it works, soetimes it doesn't.

How often do you see the native porters running from the idol and the hero just stepping up and smashing it?

Rich

[Mo]

How often do you see the native porters running from the idol and the hero just stepping up and smashing it?

You are talking about two very different things, Terror and insanity. Sure the natives run from the idol, but do they become gibbering fools?

The ones that are going to go insane are the ones who stay and fight against the incomprehinsable horrors, despite there desire to run.

[Operator5]

You are talking about two very different things, Terror and insanity. Sure the natives run from the idol, but do they become gibbering fools?

The ones that are going to go insane are the ones who stay and fight against the incomprehinsable horrors, despite there desire to run.

Sometimes. I see insanity in CoC as someone's mind not being able to comprehend the terror they are facing. The native may see an airplane which he has never seen before and run in terror, never being able to come outside again for fear of the metal bird. His mind becomes obsessed with it and he "snaps."

We're talking about an insanity induced by terror. We're not talking about regular mental illness.

But I see your point with GUTS and that is why I had the Bravery over Brains special ability. Sometimes, you don't have to be smart to deal with the terror, you just push it aside and let your own martial instincts take over.

Rich

[Prof. Dietrich Hes]

Rich,
 I'm not sure what you mean by not wanting a new attribute?  Do you mean having an "Insanity" stat, or Mo's suggestion of something new?

I would want to keep it simple, regardless of what is worked out, and also have players with the ability to keep some of their regular 45A characters and just use them in a new setting. this way if the new stat is made up of either their brains or some combination.  It will be easier for people to have them in there.

I was going through some of my notes last night and thinking about this. I do see your point about just using Brains.  But will it be kept as a seperate tracking stat. or in conjunction with injuries?

[PeteMurray]

Okay, the Sanity stat idea was dumb.

If you want to do the idea that being brilliant is also likely to make you crazy, why not do passing a sanity check by rolling OVER your Brains score? That way the more hits to the head you get, the more punch-drunk and less likely to go completely mad you go...

I am not volunteering for Prof. Hes to punch me in the head for empirical verification of this.

[Mo]

Okay, the Sanity stat idea was dumb.


There are no bad ideas, Pete. Just ones Rich doesn't like....

 :wink:

[Prof. Dietrich Hes]

Pete,
 I wouldnt say it was a dumb idea.  I like the idea of a seperate stat for sanity.  We just have to find a way to "convince" Rich that it is a good idea.

I'll buy you a beer at historicon and we can talk about it. Hey we can see if I get you drunk if it makes you more apt to go insane as well   ::

And you know I would never hit you.  I like you......  but not in that way