Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: nic-e on May 30, 2014, 12:50:12 AM
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the mantic open day had some of the miniatures for the next dwarf kings hold game on display, and they look great!
the rules seem really fun, and if this game comes in a deadzone style box with terrain and all i think it could be a great game for fans of heroquest or similar :)
(linking to the game designers website because it's easier.)
http://quirkworthy.com/2014/05/28/dwarf-kings-hold-4-some-info/
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Thanks for posting that, excellent read and info, this is right up my alley
and I'll be pledging and running this with my old role playing group without a shadow
of a doubt.
Regards
Jim
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This is great news, I had no idea this was coming. Although having already pledged for the Mars Attacks and Dreadball Xtreme kickstarters I doubt my wallet could afford yet another crowd funder from Mantic at the moment.
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This is the first Mantic product that actually has me reaching for the wallet. Very interesting!
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This is the first Mantic product that actually has me reaching for the wallet. Very interesting!
I love mantic, i think they make great games, but i think if this goes well it could blow their other stuff out of the water :)
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I love mantic, i think they make great games, but i think if this goes well it could blow their other stuff out of the water :)
My statement was no reflection on their previous offerings. I'm not into "large" battle games such as Warpath or KoW. I don't play enough Blood Bowl to fell I need a replacement for it, so Dreadzone haven't interested me either. Deadzone looked interesting but once again, the setting and miniatures left me cold. The old DKH had passed under my radar, but looked a bit too confined compared to what I'm looking for in a game. This, however, have the possibility of checking almost all my boxes for a dungeon romp. Exciting times!
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That. Necromancer. :o
May have to pledge to this as a first time 'pledger' :D
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I'm hoping (REALLY HOPING) that because this is a less squad based game, they might make these hard plastic or real resin.
Also, i'll be packing for uni when this kickstarter is meant to come around, so i'm also hoping i can afford it.
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I'm hoping (REALLY HOPING) that because this is a less squad based game, they might make these hard plastic or real resin.
I'm not familiar with Mantic's material, but aren't their stuff always injection molded hard-ish plastic? Ie not board game bendy-plastic but proper miniatures plastic. It's a moot point for me as I have dungeon creatures and heroes coming out the wazoo in glorious lead, but I'll join you in your hopes for your sake. =)
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I'm not familiar with Mantic's material, but aren't their stuff always injection molded hard-ish plastic? Ie not board game bendy-plastic but proper miniatures plastic. It's a moot point for me as I have dungeon creatures and heroes coming out the wazoo in glorious lead, but I'll join you in your hopes for your sake. =)
It's restic, which is an alright material but not huge fun to clean up. actually you make a good point, as their mars attacks game is using a hard board game plastic, similar to their loka pieces, so i hope this game uses the same :)
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This could be really interesting, the market has been looking for a good co-op dungeon skirmish (rather than rpg lite) game for ever. DKH 1&2 are great fun games and the Mantic plastic figures are great quality casts of OK sculpts (Dwarves are a bit meh but others good enough, the undead are the stand out, they are brilliant figures).
Certainly one to watch out for.
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In terms of materials, I'm not sure what the DKH4 ones will be. Probably similar to the Mars Attacks figures, with dungeon furniture in hard plastic instead, at a guess. However, there was discussion about offering optional premium resin castings of the same sculpts for painters or collectors who preferred that. That may be an option during the Kickstarter.
"Restic" is a slightly confusing thing to call that material as it's not a single thing: it's a family. You can tweak the recipe (and Mantic have) to get different degrees of bendiness, detail holding, and other properties. I think each wave of models that Mantic have made with this sort of material has been with a different blend, and it's got better each time. The Mars Attacks ones are pretty good. Personally I'd still prefer good old Airfix style hard plastic, but that's a personal preference. Most mediums, including this one, have some advantage or other.
Prodos, Privateer Press, Fantasy Flight, CMON, and even Finecast models are all somewhere on this spectrum of material. And, what's true for one mix isn't always true for another - even within a single company.
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I've always meant to check out the DKH games and just never got around to it. This will probably change that.
If i want to play the originals would I be ok just getting the pdf rules? I already have loads of dungeon tiles and minis. Is there anything else in the boxed game that is necessary to play
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Is there anything else in the boxed game that is necessary to play
Yes, the tokens that determine actions/follow on actions. They are different for each side.
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Do they at least describe the tokens enough where I could make my own?
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IIRC the rules list the tokens in each set.
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I just dug out the rulebook for Green Menace (first one that came to hand) and yes they do. On the back it shows how many of each "terrain" & "status" type and in the book it gives the breakdown of the (in this case Orc & Elf) specific Action token set.
Providing the d/l is the full book looks like you are good to go.
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Thanks for looking into that for me. Definitely going to get the first pdf and give it a try
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It sounds good looking forward to it.
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Woo hoo. Love mantic stuff. Got in on the KOW kickstarter so will defo do this. Nice sculpts make it that much easier to give them my money
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That dwarf adventurer with the hammer and the lantern--wow!!!!! I need to see him from the front, but he looks amazing!
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Any new information about this one? Seems to have gone very quiet considering a July/August KS launch was mentioned.
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Just raising this thread from near death to say the Kickstarter date has finally been announced for August 4th.
More details being added to a blog site:
http://dwarfkingsquest.com (http://dwarfkingsquest.com)
Currently including a brief video interview about how the game is structured and plays (with some pictures of the new character minis).
Interestingly all the models are new sculpts/castings, new undead including ghosts, armoured zombies, undead trolls and troll shamans and an undead dwarf faction.
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Aye here's what we know off the top of my head.
Undead vs heroes. (barbarian,dwarf fighter,elf ranger,mage)
"2 tier" game box.on the top basic campaign and beginner game, with a removable panel to reveal a boox full of advanced rules to make it more of an rpg.
card tiles thicker and higher quality than old dkh.
material will be loka/mars attacks style pvc.that is to say very hard board game style plastic.(i have a loka piece from the open day and really, it feels just like polystyrene plastic to me)
several new races (Shapeshifters, lizard/fishmen, monsters , banshees.)
several other mini's spotted such as halflings and other dwarfs suggest some stretch goals , but this looks to be a small (by mantic standard) kickstarter with the game hitting somewhere around the £70 spot according to online speculation.
from what i can tell, it will be similar to heroquest in terms of co-op, in that you don't have to play nice.
Also, you need the password , Hjalgeir , to get on the spoiler site. (i asked, and yes, it is meant to mean password in dwarven.(dwarvish?dwarfish?dwarve?)
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The discussions about co-op make it clear that (thankfully) it is not a Boardgame "all one one side vs random enemy AI" type co-op. Someone plays the Monsters/Enemies and can win the game by stopping the heroes who may work together or for individual goals.
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It looks pretty cool. Not sure I like what they are saying about the character development but looks fun enough to back so far in any case. I'll see how the kickstarter goes.
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this sounds and look good, don't think ill bother hunting a heroquest game now
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this sounds and look good, don't think ill bother hunting a heroquest game now
That's a bold statement, mantic really need to make this one a solid hit to be not only a relative to heroquest, but a true successor.
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I'm holding out and hoping this will be good. Fingers crossed they'll make beta versions of the rules available or give out more details before the Kickstarter :)
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I'm looking forward to seeing better pics of the undead troll and things like that. My first GW army was undead and they've always been a favourite of mine since so this should tick all the boxes minimise for me... Hopefully.
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Jake said in one of the articles listed earlier in the thread that it was a new set of rules, but l would not expect the basic game to be much more complex than DKH if at all What complexity ther is will come with the second part of the game box and the advanced build your own options
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Yes. In the interview with beasts of aware he likened it to heroquest. Mainly in the way that it will be an intro to this sort of game. I hope it is more complex though than heroquest as those rules were very basic. Still love playing it with my son though.
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I'd bet money it'll be "simple" but with a load of optional rules (which I'm guessing will be included in the second-tier book he hinted at). I'll get in on this if one of two things occur:
1) It goes ballistic and becomes a good value for money.
2) It has great minis. I'm normally quite soured by Mantic stuff, but the ones shown in the video are quite nice.
As with the 25th-Ed. Hero Quest, I won't likely be buying it to play the game itself but rather to get a big box of minis. I'm not overly excited about the idea of the PVC style material - but if it's a good kickstarter I'll throw in on it. I'd also imagine the basic Kickstarter should be what $65-80? A starter box shouldn't be much more than that. Nice to see the aim at dungeon crawling though. Colour me intrigued.
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I do like the skeleton archers - been looking for some nice ones for a while.
Wonder if any add-on / options will be to get the old games?
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The minis on that look amazing!!!
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I'm a little "meh" about the PVC material. How are their dread ball miniatures? How is the material?
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I'm a little "meh" about the PVC material. How are their dread ball miniatures? How is the material?
It's a different material, the one they used with loka. honestly, it feels alot like hard plastic and behaves similarly, but you have to use superglue.
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That's good news. Thanks guys.
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There is some discussion that the KS "early bird" pledges for this campaign will be limited by time not by number, don't know how long but (given how Mantic KS projects tend to go) probably worth pledging early then working it out later on.
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Yep, particularly when you can always drop your pledge later (or sell it on to someone here). If it's sub $100 I'll definitely get in on this one.
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Sounds like a great way to do an early bird. For those of us on the other side of the planet early birds always seem to be in the dead of night and I inevitably miss out on them.
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at Beefcake, tell me about it, I stayed up untill 3am to get the early bird Mars attack stuff.....only for there site to not work >:( >:(
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Lol, yep sucks to be a kiwi when it comes to kickstarter earlybirds.
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Some new pics. That one with the scythe is really heroquest isn't it.
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Why don't we pick a thread and stick with it - looks like we have two running now.
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lol didn't see the other thread, went straight to this one as it's been running longest.
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Yeah I suggest we combine the two -- the title on the other one is now more appropriate, so I'm sure a mod can knock it all together. I suspect it'll be a lot of conversation here when the KS starts running. :D
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With that in mind, when we launch on Monday we will do so with just one Pledge Level – the Absolute Depravity level. This is to make it really easy to identify which is the sweet spot pledge level that will get all the cool freebies unlocked in it! It will be available for $100.
There will also be a discounted Early Bird special offer available to those of you who get in first and help us break our funding goal. These Early Birds are highly limited in number.
From the Mantic blog. The trick will be to stay steel-willed and not pick up all the extras... But £60 for a modern Heroquest - looking good. Might have to pick up the Statuesque characters though...
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Strictly limited in number >:( it will be 7-8 hours before I get to pledge, and that's if I can get in some time before starting work in which case it's more likely to be 16hrs+ it's not like hey need the earlybirds either. People will pledge for this regardless and it's only those people that already know about it that are going to be first on their and pledge anyway.
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£60 for a nice modern heroquest successor.worth it considering how much i saved on my real heroquest.
Mini's look great and i really do like the loka material, and the skeleton with the scythe is such a hard nod to heroquest i'm surprised ronnie didn't break his neck. lol
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Disappointing change to what was mentioned before, at least on the other Mantic KS projects the step between early birds and standard KS pricing has been small.
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Now live:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest)
Over 180 backers in the first 60 seconds and fully funded in a little over 4 minutes. Mantic certainly have the art of launching a Kickstarter project well and truly sorted.
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I dove in. It's already a good deal even as it stands, and we are barely day one.
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I'm in. It also looks like they went very subdued for the initial box - fully anticipating a KS explosion.
Expected delivery is August 2015 - so they also are planning this well ahead, and I bet they could easily deliver with 11 months to sort it all out. (Oddly one of the reasons I do Kickstarters is that I enjoy forgetting about them - and randomly getting a huge box in the mail with goodies...).
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I took a look... I don't find the figures that appealing at this point. Really, I have backed a couple mantic projects before just to find myself selling them off a few months after they arrived. I will probably pass for now.
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Still growing at an impressive rate, $136k now and first 3 stretch goals already passed; new undead including Dwarves and rules for including ghouls, ghosts, werewolves, mummies etc now free in the box
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/384/131/6b4153be298415e6f53d0f576bbfd7cf_large.jpg?1407164219)
(wonder how all undead Dwarves manage to keep their beards?)
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I'm seriously thinking about this one, but I already have a massive Warhammer Quest collection. My quick dungeon crawl needs with growth capability might already be met.
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Its the years wait thats put me off for now.
Unless something pops up as a stretch goal I cannot miss, I can wait till the normal set comes out.
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Its the years wait thats put me off for now.
Unless something pops up as a stretch goal I cannot miss, I can wait till the normal set comes out.
So we invest for 100% opposite reasons! :D Like Hero Quest 25th etc. I actually enjoy the idea of waiting, however I also hop on Kickstarters when I think we'll see expansive growth and a lot of bonus materials. Because then, if a year from now it shows up and I'm not too keen on it, it'll sell for far more than $100.
If I choose not to play the game itself I'll sell off the components I don't need and keep the stuff I want. However, as with HQ25 - I have a 7 year old nephew, and I sure as hell don't trust him with my painted minis and DF terrain. So both of these will offer me a chance to see if he takes to games at all (he's already absorbed in video games!).
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As you can probably tell since i started this thread, i'm super hyped for this. I need to get paid on time to pledge for the absolute depravity level so i can get it all .. :)
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Wow they've put barely anything in that box...
21 mass produced coloured cheap plastic figures, approx 100 cards, some counters... a bunch of card dungeon tiles, some card terrain, dice and some rules and that's worth £60?
Way better value buying Decent at the moment.
It really feels like Mantic have this plan of what to put in the box for retail but they want to milk the KS so the first 15 or so stretch goals are simply going to be for the things they wanted to put in the retail box.
We already know there are 2 trolls and 8 adventurers already designed, so once those have passed, maybe we can move onto the true strech goals. And this might actually be worth the cash.
Mark me unimpressed presently and I backed 2 mantic KSs already, the first 2... the ones with the really bad quality control and I really wish I hadn't lol. The ones after where everything got better I didn't and wish I had lol... :(
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Without question, if they released the box with its actual contents as posted it would retail for about $39.99.
I expect it to be 50-70 models by the time it closes, so hence I think $100 shipped is a very reasonable deal. I think they fully planned on it. In a few thousand bucks it'll be at 33 miniatures. I agree, they're not real stretch goals. I think they've learned from all of the other games and projects which run over themselves in the process. They're clever those Mantic fellas.
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Without question, if they released the box with its actual contents as posted it would retail for about $39.99.
I expect it to be 50-70 models by the time it closes, so hence I think $100 shipped is a very reasonable deal. I think they fully planned on it. In a few thousand bucks it'll be at 33 miniatures. I agree, they're not real stretch goals. I think they've learned from all of the other games and projects which run over themselves in the process. They're clever those Mantic fellas.
They've done this before adn they're learning more each time.look at how hard it was to follow kings of war,t hen look at how simple and streamlined this is so far. it might be a bit of a cop out , but it's gonna keep it simple and exciting i think.
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that is a bit dodgy the stretch goals unlock basic components that should already be in there.
Seriously.
I'm going to start sounding like am antic employee .
But we don't know that these things were going to be in the core game.we have seen the sculpts yes, but at no point has mantic said "the core box with have this this and this". i'd like the undead troll shaman to be in the core game, but i don't see anything that says it was ever going to be right off the bat.
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loving the look of the figures but for the price id want a lot more in the core game
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Let's be real here. The "normal" method for Kickstarters (particularly of wargames) has been the growing mystery of unlocks. It's like an advent calendar when you're a child. Running downstairs and opening up your little calendar for your piece o' chocolate.
They could have done this two ways:
1) $100 for the box with say...45 minis in it, and a "funded" level at say $250,000. People pledge, reach the 250K and then unlocks starts.
2) $100 for 20 minis and a rather silly low "funded" level at $50,000. Then reveal likely contents for the first few days to generate excitement etc.
Is it a bit cheeky? Perhaps. However I simply want one thing: a good value for my money and a product which appeals to me. I don't really care how artful they are about reaching the same goal. I think they're just very very aware that unlocks and surprises etc. are probably a HUGE driving force for interest, news etc. Consider most of the KS threads on this site. If we had very high funded levels for a good product there wouldn't be anything to talk about - far less buzz. By being a little cheeky and breaking it up etc. they're playing a smart PR campaign.
I do believe that there was always going to be more in the box, particularly for $100. If they had a $40 level then I'd agree that the original box was it. Because they're doing precisely one pledge option (I love this by the way) they obviously built in some money to cover bonuses, unlocks, and unique miniatures etc. It's all simple propaganda and politicking. As long as the end product is worth my $100 I don't mind how they do it. I don't see it as anything shady. I also don't believe anyone who pledged the initial $100 expected to simply receive the box contents. (after all, pledgers can withdraw their pledge up to the last instant).
Mantic is just generating buzz.
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I'm in. It also looks like they went very subdued for the initial box - fully anticipating a KS explosion.
Expected delivery is August 2015 - so they also are planning this well ahead, and I bet they could easily deliver with 11 months to sort it all out. (Oddly one of the reasons I do Kickstarters is that I enjoy forgetting about them - and randomly getting a huge box in the mail with goodies...).
That's it. Although when a couple come in at once the wife looks at me a bit quizically.
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Well i'll be sitting on the fence until it feels like it's worth the money over buying Decent lol.
When it comes down to it, i'm more interested in the components than the game as there are plenty of decent rules systesm out there so there's got to be plenty of components for the money for me.
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I just really like the fact that you will be able to use other miniatures in the game and I already have a tonne of mantic stuff especially the undead stuff and other evil stuff.
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If the kickstarter goes as planned, knowing Mantic, the box will be filled quite well in the end. However at the moment it does not seem pretty spectaculair to me, mainly due to the Myth, HQ 25th and SDE kickstarters. I would have expected more of the plastic models in the base set (more of the same type would not have been bad at all) and expected to have the rules for KOW models included as well in the advanced rulebook without the need for these being unlocked via stretch goals. A bit of a letdown IMHO. Still it will probably turn out nicely in the end and will already be looking better in a few days.
In the end, I'm going for this mostly for the same reason as Elbows except to play it with my son in a few years time. Actually I've been buying way to many games with the excuse that I hope to play with him, while I really want to have them myself :)
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Yep, the video that aired just before the KS started made it seem as if all that would be base set.
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It took me a whole day to cave. I just backed it, as it seems pretty clear that there are more stretch goals to come. And... it's old school baby!
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I'm wavering. The actual characters are a bit meh, I have better miniatures already in my collection.
The monster type baddies are ok, but again, not the greatest. Will have to see what the rules are like.
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Since my last post they've added three Undead Trolls and a Troll Shaman as stretch goals, with accompanying floor tile. Their initial entry-level pitch was a bit disingenuous perhaps, but it looks like new stretch goals are being added and reached pretty frequently.
To be honest, it looks like some of these tiles will be compatible with Warhammer Quest, which is really what I'm after. More dungeon grist for the dungeon mill!
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I wonder if they'll get sued for this one? This is Felecia Day's character in the amazingly popular MMO comedy show The Guild. If they do the whole cast of the show, I may well get into it after all.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/384/565/6bfac6c095119ecc4cce3235ee0ca45b_large.jpg)
Thanks
n.
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(http://rockbandaide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Avatar.jpg)
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I have no doubt they squared that away before doing so. I bet she's chuffed to bits. :D
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I have no doubt they squared that away before doing so. I bet she's chuffed to bits. :D
hmmm I hope so but I would have expected to see Guild in there somewhere, and Zombiecide certainly didn't on their masses of to the wire IP rip offs...
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Nice one! I never saw The Guild, looked into it yesterday ans thought it was a bit annoying,* but still, makes me appriciate the miniature more.
*I'm not so into MMORPG since I stopped playing MUDs in '97 after seeing how addictive they can be for me.
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Is anyone else disappointed that the stretch goals are primarily triples of the same figure? Didn't really bother me that much until the trolls, where each troll is in the exact same position throwing the exact same brick. I don't remember the Dreadball stretch goals all being the same figure...
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I am with you on the Trolls, it is such a noticeable pose that seeing it repeated will look odd. A more passive pose would have been better if they were intending to have multiples.
Overall this KS is disappointing so far, it has a long way to go before it looks better value than Descent or the D&D Boardgames and they seem to be justifying the "light" box at launch by saying the retail version will be even lighter.
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I have no doubt they squared that away before doing so. I bet she's chuffed to bits. :D
I agree maxxev on this one; if they had permissions they'd be using The Guild names, etc. I imagine Felecia Day wouldn't be happy to see it either. The Guild is a huge hit, and Geek & Sundrie is extremely successful. Not sure Mantic weighs in at the same level. That is, using Felecia Day in this Kickstarter does more for Mantic that it does for The Guild.
In any case, it's a cool fig!
thanks
n
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Well, I imagine we'll find out. It's borderline impossible that word will not reach her (particularly if she's as big a geek as she puts on). Regarding the triples of figures, I'm a little torn. On one hand I agree, it'd be awesome for multiple sculpts. On the other hand this is after all a board game. I'm not excited about the bases being included etc. Between HQ25 and this one, this one is more likely to remain in board-game configuration for me.
Right now I'm viewing this one as much more of a boardgame than a miniatures game. I will say though with the unlocked trolls etc. I think it's close the $100 mark value now. I've seen plenty of "luxury" board games with a similar $80-90 price tag.
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I wonder if they'll get sued for this one?
Of course not. How could she possibly sue them?
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There was a long live question/answer discussion about the game with Jake Thornton on YouTube earlier this evening. A lot of interesting points and a more clear idea of how the game works, the similarities and differences with the DKH 1-3 sets and some details of what is (and is not) included here if the $$ keep coming in.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/c4kSBHlrIG8 (http://www.youtube.com/embed/c4kSBHlrIG8)
On the Kickstarter itself there is now a $1 add ons only pledge for anyone wanting just tile packs, 3D tokens or figures. Currently about $12k off the free Zombie Troll Shaman model.
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Glad to see the Zombie Troll Shaman on board soon. I think that is all I know about the miniatures that were to be included in the base game. The rest are all bonuses for me now. :)
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Of course not. How could she possibly sue them?
Haha, you almost got me! lol
n.
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I think the problem with the duplicates is the mixing of the board game miniatures and the standard tabletop miniatures. The tabletop miniatures have a lot more variety and therefore make the boardgame only miniatures look very redundant in pose. Unfortunately putting them on the same tile is bound to create an unflattering contrast between the two groups of figures.
I think Mantic is very good at manipulating what they have to make it look better than it actually is--which you have to hand it to them is a great strategy for kickstarters. For instance, if I have 20 tiles for a game, rather than saying you get 20 tiles, I say here's 19 tiles plus a bonus tile!
Anyway, perhaps I'm being too cynical. I just don't see this one taking off like Dreadball as things currently stand. I hope I'm wrong ;)
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$250k stretch goal has been passed (just!), really sharp slowdown in the funding over the last 24 hours. Still good by most KS standards but marked enough that the target between stretch goals has been cut from the previous 25k down to $10k.
Zombie Troll Shaman is now included "free" in the box and they have called the undead contingent finished. So with the original characters and all the various undead enemies this is probably where the retail box set stops.
Next Stretch Goal is a new character, Female Halfling Rogue:
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It seems to be moving at the standard pace of KS (except for a few which go bananas). Initial sign-ups then a drought until the last week, where stuff bumps up. I agree with what you said about the shaman marking the end of the retail box. (Oddly I also guessed that they could have started the initial funding at $250K with about that many miniatures...but opted not to).
As of now it's perfectly on par with games of its type (Descent etc.) as far as what you get in the box. I'll be curious to see if it goes wild at the end or not. Depending on the quality of the miniatures some of the add-ons are not horrible either.
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in the interview Ronnie mentioned 4 more adventurers in the box, so we're not at the full retail boxed set yet.
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One of them will be the halfling thief due in about 5k. I don't think the female wizard is part of that though, she's resin exclusive right?
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Haha, you almost got me! lol
Maybe you don't understand how copyright works but there is nothing actionable in that figure
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I do find it funny that the next stretch goal is for a miniature that appears on the front of the box lol
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Maybe you don't understand how copyright works but there is nothing actionable in that figure
I wish that were true. If it were, I'd ask for batman... or maybe The Mighty Thor to fit the theme a bit better?!?
Thanks
n
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in the interview Ronnie mentioned 4 more adventurers in the box, so we're not at the full retail boxed set yet.
Quite true, my error, assumed there would 4 heroes in a 2-5 player game.
So $265k with 3 more starter box characters still to be funded by Stretch Goals gets it to about the $300k mark for the complete retail box set. Which will probably sell rrp as a one box starter game for about the same as Mars Attacks; £50 ($85) without the inevitable online trader discounts.
At which time the KS backers get 1 extra plastic model of each undead troop type, a booklet of 6 scenarios re-used from the original DKH game and 2 "exclusive" models (not codex in plastic and the resin dark elf) for a pledge of £60 ($100).
Still not really seeing the value of this one.
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I think it also includes extra floor plans - could be wrong there mind you.
Two exclusive models at the moment are included as well.
As for the £10 supposed difference. There are a few factors you need to throw in. The obvious is that these ship to your door - whilst UK folk tend to get free shipping over x amount spent anyway - this is a bit more than a few sprues that they would typically send in a small box etc.
Then there is the idea that you should be getting the sets in advance of normal retail. Plus there is anything else they add on from this point in.
I'm not in on it yet, but I may well go in later on. I have noticed that the Early Birds are often only a matter of a $10-15 dollars cheaper in most cases, I'd rather have a better idea of what I am getting so am prepared to wait until more is unveiled.
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Mantic has the habit of adding more stuff, when the funding slows down, to keep people interested. They did this with Mars Attacks and Dreadball extreme. I would not be surprised of the really nice stuff still has to come. The problem is mainly that more backers are needed, as the add-ons are not yet that interesting imho.
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From the game demo video it seems that there will also be some 3D dungeon dressing scenics in the starter box so probably one or more stretch goals to add "free" scenery pieces.
Demo Game Video (quite long)
http://www.beastsofwar.com/dungeon-saga/dungeon-saga-demo-game/ (http://www.beastsofwar.com/dungeon-saga/dungeon-saga-demo-game/)
or same video direct to YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht0UrxZ8PLM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht0UrxZ8PLM)
The Alpha version of the basic playtest rules (just the minimum to move/fight/cast spells) is available for download on the first link also. With a Q&A thread on Jake's Quirkworthy blog:
http://quirkworthy.com/dungeon-sagas/ (http://quirkworthy.com/dungeon-sagas/)
Kickstarter Link :
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest
(https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest)
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Part of me wants to say that I think people have been spoiled by some KS's where so much stuff is thrown at them.
Reaper Bones, Zombicide and a few others. But in most of those, and with a pinch of salt, they are deliberately going for masses of miniatures. I've been reliably informed that Zombicide is fun but it becomes very repetitive very quickly.
What really matters to me on this kickstarter is how good the core game actually is. There are already plenty of cheap miniatures out there that can be used for dungeon crawling hordes etc. Games though - now that's another thing.
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Part of me wants to say that I think people have been spoiled by some KS's where so much stuff is thrown at them.
Reaper Bones, Zombicide and a few others. But in most of those, and with a pinch of salt, they are deliberately going for masses of miniatures. I've been reliably informed that Zombicide is fun but it becomes very repetitive very quickly.
What really matters to me on this kickstarter is how good the core game actually is. There are already plenty of cheap miniatures out there that can be used for dungeon crawling hordes etc. Games though - now that's another thing.
I agree .will i'll admit yes, some of this stuff seemed like it shouldn't have been a stretch goal, i don't think £60 for what is on offer is at all bad. games like descent pack alot in, but they are kind of a drudge to play alot and the miniatures can be a bit hit and miss in terms of quality.
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Part of me wants to say that I think people have been spoiled by some KS's where so much stuff is thrown at them.
I agree totally, and if this were a genuine small company starting up with a new to market idea that needed access to funds to develop/launch I would not expect to see extensive stretch goals or freebies.
However this isn't a genuine KS start up, its a pre-order scheme from an established and well funded reputable company. Mantic do not need to crowd source this development, with their record and financial position they have access to normal funding sources such as market loans and seed capital. However rather than go down that route and pay the interest and commissions they choose to use our money instead.
What they "pay" for the privilege of that are the extras, exclusives and discounts they offer the backers, which currently in this campaign are very few and very disappointing.
I think you should look at each KickStarter project on its merits and decide as a lender/investor what return you want to get for your loan/investment in that particular company. As I said above, for me, this project is not yet giving good value. Maybe it will as it continues, maybe not. I am prepared to wait until the end to decide, but for me Mantic are one of the companies who should be giving more not less. My expectation is higher than if this was a project from some other games companies.
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Read some of the rules today and I must say it's all a bit bland and uninspired. Doesn't appeal at all IMO.
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I agree totally, and if this were a genuine small company starting up with a new to market idea that needed access to funds to develop/launch I would not expect to see extensive stretch goals or freebies.
However this isn't a genuine KS start up, its a pre-order scheme from an established and well funded reputable company. Mantic do not need to crowd source this development, with their record and financial position they have access to normal funding sources such as market loans and seed capital. However rather than go down that route and pay the interest and commissions they choose to use our money instead.
What they "pay" for the privilege of that are the extras, exclusives and discounts they offer the backers, which currently in this campaign are very few and very disappointing.
I think you should look at each KickStarter project on its merits and decide as a lender/investor what return you want to get for your loan/investment in that particular company. As I said above, for me, this project is not yet giving good value. Maybe it will as it continues, maybe not. I am prepared to wait until the end to decide, but for me Mantic are one of the companies who should be giving more not less. My expectation is higher than if this was a project from some other games companies.
I agree with some of this - however, being able to access loans to fund projects is the point of KS. It's to help companies cut out the loans, be funded in advance rather than be working for nothing until the loans are paid, which incur interest rates etc.
Also, size of company doesn't really come into it in my mind. Mantic isn't the size of GW. It may be a bigger company but perhaps no bigger than say Perry, Warlord or some of the other, larger companies out there (perhaps Perry isn't a good example).
As others have said, the chances are it will pick up steam towards the end of the campaign anyway but I will still stick to my guns and say that because some KS's are generous, some people often have similar expectations with other KS's when it may not be the case.
This KS may well end up being incredibly generous who knows.
As of yet though, the only KS that I am genuinely gutted about not going in on was C'thulu wars.
I haven't gone near a single Zombicide KS. I like zombigames but as a miniatures fan, rather than a boadgame fan, I thought that the 'generosity' was reflected in the quality of the final pieces. They were not gaming miniatures, struggled to fit with most ranges out there and lacked the quality I would expect of such.
They say, you get what you pay for. The only exception I can see to this is Reaper Bones but it comes with a caveat - in that the material seems to work best with bigger more chunky pieces so that the flexibility of parts and the quality of casting is maintained.
However, I agree with what you say. Every KS has to be taken on it's own merit.
Currently the KS is $100 which according to google currency converter is £59.55. Should the dollar weaken prior to the end of the KS you may well get it cheaper! As it stands there are 38 miniatures included in the set.
As I have already said, I tend to go into crowd funding things later on, forgoing the financial bonus of going in early with knowing what I am going to get. I know you can pull out but I don't like the idea of that.
I watched the video of the basic core game as it stands - plays a bit like the DnD board game if you ask me. Only d6's instead of the specially created dice.
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I definitely see a bunch of stuff in that video that I'm not a big fan of. However, the basic mechanics look pretty sound...and being a wiz with cards etc. I could easily adjust anything I wanted to. I think I'll whip out some game tiles and give this a whirl at some point. See how it plays out - so I can give some proper feedback to the guys.
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I haven't gone near a single Zombicide KS. I like zombigames but as a miniatures fan, rather than a boadgame fan, I thought that the 'generosity' was reflected in the quality of the final pieces. They were not gaming miniatures, struggled to fit with most ranges out there and lacked the quality I would expect of such.
This is an interesting perspective on Zombicide.
They certainly didn't scale super well with some ranges; they dodn't have the oversized heads and hands that many figure manufacturers have in 28mm.
Other than that though, I've rarely seen a better collection of miniatures in a board game or in a tabletop game. Elegantly sculpted, finely detailed, excellent material, and the variability considering they're one-piece figs (which frees up so much building time) is simply fantastic.
Thanks
n
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Read some of the rules today and I must say it's all a bit bland and uninspired. Doesn't appeal at all IMO.
Alpha rules with no chrome. Not sure why they do this sort of thing as it usually has this response from people. The Deadzone rules were the same way
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I wish that were true. If it were, I'd ask for batman... or maybe The Mighty Thor to fit the theme a bit better?!?
And now I know that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
I wish people who didn't understand the basics of the issues involved would stop talking about them.
Also, kudos for avoiding the question asked of you.
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However this isn't a genuine KS start up...
Well Kickstarter seems to be okay with it. You also make a lot of presumptions without any apparent evidence for it.
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As of yet though, the only KS that I am genuinely gutted about not going in on was C'thulu wars.
You still have two day to enter via the pledge manager if you want in ;)
https://www.fundafull.com/projects/greeneyegames/cthulhuwars/pledge-manager/
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Read some of the rules today and I must say it's all a bit bland and uninspired. Doesn't appeal at all IMO.
I think you need to take into account the fact they are alpha rules of the core set only. I quite liked the look of the combat mechanic. It gives off that Heroquest vibe that I was looking for but with a little more depth. I habe really enjoyed Jake Thorntons last few projects (Dreadball, Deadzone, God's of Battle) so I have faith this will be a fun game.
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Simply difference in taste. Just not a fan of the way Mantic's rules and this one's not different. Although they are 'only' core rules, the basics are the defining part of a game, they either either make or break the game. And I see a lot of rehashing from other games, which I'm not a fan of.
But hey...saves me money to spend on other stuff! More Pulp Alley! :D
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Simply difference in taste. Just not a fan of the way Mantic's rules and this one's not different. Although they are 'only' core rules, the basics are the defining part of a game, they either either make or break the game. And I see a lot of rehashing from other games, which I'm not a fan of.
But hey...saves me money to spend on other stuff! More Pulp Alley! :D
You're quite right.
I am a bit of a sucker for kickstarters generally. Which is why I have also pledged for the Lone Wolf rpg despite not being an rpg guy...
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$300k stretch goal has just been announced (about $10k away so should see it passed tomorrow)
The game modes will be expanded to make it playable as a fully co-op so all players on 1 side against the board, but with the added twist that it will also work the other way around in solo play with the Necromancer player against the AI heroes.
There has been a lot of impassioned shouting for this to be included, so great for those who have been wanting it.
Also there will be a new exclusive character free for the pledge boxes, looks like some kind of Chaos Warrior but can apparently play as a hero or enemy character:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/410/584/cce004ee587d5ae94a7f1e7faea1950a_large.jpg?1407609111
Also a major update has been promised to outline just what advanced rules are being included in the second part of the game box. Hopefully the "build your own" rules will be included along with a full set of stats and abilities for a wider range of character/monster types.
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I like the idea of solo necromancer play.
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Also there will be a new exclusive character free for the pledge boxes, looks like some kind of Chaos Warrior but can apparently play as a hero or enemy character:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/410/584/cce004ee587d5ae94a7f1e7faea1950a_large.jpg?1407609111)
I think this is Blaine, who was also present in Dreadball, Deadzone and Mars Attacks kickstarters as an exclusive and sort of the instigator of Dreadball Extreme (background fluff wise)
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Maybe you don't understand how copyright works but there is nothing actionable in that figure
*cough*
Gabrielle Erailc update
The fine folks from the mighty Geek and Sundry have gotten in touch and we’re engaging with them about licensing opportunities for the Gabrielle Erailc character.
We have a great history with licenses including producing Mars Attacks - The MIniatures Game as well as Judge Dredd characters and Gabe and Tycho from Penny Arcade. We hope that we’re able to make something really cool off the back of this discussion!
In the meantime, as part of this discussion we’ve been asked to remove Gabrielle from the pledge level for the time being, which we will do in a 2-for-1 swap with brand new characters so you're not missing out – because what’s a quest without a barkeeper and his trusty dog?!
*cough*
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Man, I think I'd rather a barkeep and dog than the lady wizardress...now I hope they don't come to an agreement. lol
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Man, I think I'd rather a barkeep and dog than the lady wizardress...now I hope they don't come to an agreement. lol
Oh I don't know, if G&S were to insist on a "use one use all" approach we could get the whole Guild gang as an adventuring party, would make a great fun demo game! I actually really liked the figure concept they had.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT925a0M7A70z1yk2amWnbsIDFVeAASmAGwt0shESS9XQa1kDaL)
@ Ajsalium: ;) lol lol lol
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A bunch of stuff recently added (well, goals - not added yet) including an Orc-based expansion for $25 (dozen minis, new cards, dungeon boards etc.) and some unlocks to add goblins etc. to the starter box. Also I think the Dryad fellow was unlocked. I'm still interested in all of this stuff but I do hope the dungeon tiles end up being far more robust than previous stuff - they mentioned that in a video. I'd like to see Warhammer Quest strength boards.
One qualm: small board pieces, and way too much art on the pieces. For varied dungeons the art they've shown has been far too specific and none of the tiles seem to match up. I'd actually much prefer simple art like Warhammer Quest or the D&D boards. Simpler is better and makes more sense for various adventurers. Sometimes you don't want to same railway cart tracks cutting through every dungeon you venture into.
I think I may bust out some minis and do a little play-test --- anyone interested in a small report or have the videos been sufficient?
PS: I agree with the Guild thing, but solely because I'd like a balding Vork figure.
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qfa
And now I know that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
I wish people who didn't understand the basics of the issues involved would stop talking about them.
Also, kudos for avoiding the question asked of you.
Sigh... Let's keep this respectful please.
thanks
n.
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Expansion set added!
Greenskins, all new sculpts it seems (including a resculpt of the infamous goblin archers)
a nomadic dryad shapeshifter has also been added alongside a halfling fighter and pub landlord to replace the contested sorceress.
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Played through the game...it was okay. I played solo, but the mechanics worked "okay". A lot of things I'd change if I were to run this. That being said this only represents a very shallow half-version of the alpha rules. I'll have my brother over some time and see how it works with a more sinister opponent. Maybe I'll set up my own game and skip the provided scenario.
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They finally broke and gave in to the co-op promoters!!!!
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/410/713/0a74915124312ab6c3de14c9991b4401_large.jpg)
I think I'm in!
Thanks
n
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Maybe I missed this, the game is in 15mm?
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28mm same as the kings of war range.
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They finally broke and gave in to the co-op promoters!!!!
Given the incessant badgering on the comments thread by the co-op supporters I don't think they had any choice.
Kickstarter link:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest)
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Am not so sure the co-op supporters are responsible for this.
I follow jake Thorntons Quirkworthy Blog and these rules were bound to come. He already wrote some posts about wanting to include them in the game quite some time before the kickstarter began.
Then again, they might just have pulled them a bit more to the front of the campaign.
I like that you can play as heroes vs. an AI necromancer, but also as necromancer vs. AI heroes. Or even Play as AI vs. AI (not sure how much fun that would be though...)
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Surely you can play co-op by just not killing each other?
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Surely you can play co-op by just not killing each other?
Off course, but if one players plays with the monsters and they don't try to kille the heroes en vice versa, the game might be less fun (unless they are playing a game of tag...)
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It is a very misleading definition, apparently a 'co-op' game does not mean anything about players co-operating to achieve an aim/goal, it just means they are all playing on the same side.
To make it work I think it highly likely that Jake will develop specific victory conditions for each player character. So just like you get non 'co-op' games where players win by co-operating, here you will get a 'co-op' where players win by not!
;)
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This is purely a gut feel thing, and not based on any sort of logic, but I'm starting to regret backing this game. The initial enthusiasm was born of that fuzzy retro feeling of nostalgia for dungeon boxed games. but the more the stretch goals get revealed, the more it seems like we're just getting lots of complicated mechanics that don't interest me, lots of Kings of War figure bundles that aren't that great IMO, and very little in the way of funky cards, dice, board tiles, furniture, markers - the things that really grab me about dungeon crawl games anyhow.
Does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just having a poor emotional response to those horrible bloody Orcs in the stretch goals lol
I'll stick with it for now, but the more like Kings of War it becomes, the less I'm likely to keep my pledge.
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No harm no foul. After playing the rules I'm almost positive I won't be using them without heavy changes. I agree it's a little less quirky than I was hoping. I'll stay stuck in until the end I think and wait till I get hands on the actual box. I can always sell it off if I'm disappointed with the end result.
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(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/418/128/0e9b413760e4dddc3462d2c52854a60e_large.jpg?1407775180)
Starting to look the business if you ask me.
7 basic characters to choose from, plus the four exclusives. That means that you could play the same mission a number of times with different character groups if so desired.
Quite a horde of miniatures that looks to swell if it hits the gobbo's as well. So far the miniatures don't look too bad either. Certainly better detail than Heroquest from what I have seen. All for less than £60 including postage.
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I have no qualms with the "amount" I'm getting for the money so far. Just the rules left me cold. When they discussed Dust Tactics style miniatures I'm hoping the bases are not actually attached but are pegged (ala Dust). I do like the figures I've seen so far and hope the material is good to go.
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It is a very misleading definition, apparently a 'co-op' game does not mean anything about players co-operating to achieve an aim/goal, it just means they are all playing on the same side.
To make it work I think it highly likely that Jake will develop specific victory conditions for each player character. So just like you get non 'co-op' games where players win by co-operating, here you will get a 'co-op' where players win by not!
All games require some form of cooperation. That doesn't mean they are a co-op game.
A co-op game is one where players must cooperate to succeed (technically, you can't 'win' or 'lose' a co-op game) at the goals of the game. If the players can't get coordinated, then they fail as a group. Succeed or fail as a team/group.
A one-vs-all game is a game where all of the players except one have to cooperate to win against a single opponent. This includes Dwarf King's Quest, and also games like Shadows Over Camelot and Battlestar Galactica.
A game where one player wins - even if they are all on the same 'side' as in an adventuring group - isn't a co-op game. :) It can be played in a co-op way, like Castle Panic where players typically just choose not to compete, and simply try to protect the castle! So, if adventurers have to finish different goals and the one who finishes theirs first wins, then that's not a co-op game. But if you ignore those requirements, then it would be a co-op game!
Thanks
n
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For game value the basic set needs the 3D scenery, there are plenty of figures here but a lot less in the eventual retail box. If they include even the few pieces shown in the demo video then I think they have a winner here.
For the intended purpose (new/young inexperienced players, or more seasoned players wanting a bit of light relief) it is fine. The rules play well in alpha so can only get better. Accepted that at this level it will never be a alternative to playing an rpg but it is not intended to be.
We know very little of the rule enhancements in the Advanced section yet so have no idea on how skills and abilities will work or character advancement nor any of the non combat aspects. For the price of the basic pledge I think this will turn out to be an excellent Kickstarter, I agree about the expansions and add ons so far though, very poor and little incentive to add $$.
The Mantic "big creatures"...Trolls and Werewolves are absolutely dreadful sculpts.
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This is purely a gut feel thing, and not based on any sort of logic, but I'm starting to regret backing this game. The initial enthusiasm was born of that fuzzy retro feeling of nostalgia for dungeon boxed games. but the more the stretch goals get revealed, the more it seems like we're just getting lots of complicated mechanics that don't interest me, lots of Kings of War figure bundles that aren't that great IMO, and very little in the way of funky cards, dice, board tiles, furniture, markers - the things that really grab me about dungeon crawl games anyhow.
Does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just having a poor emotional response to those horrible bloody Orcs in the stretch goals lol
I'll stick with it for now, but the more like Kings of War it becomes, the less I'm likely to keep my pledge.
I can feel you... but, seriously...
Isn't what you're describing exactly what you were looking for?
- Lots of complicated mechanics: Warhammer Quest was second to none in this regard! Well... maybe that star fleet battles game was worse... But KoW isn't complex.
- Lots of figure bundles from the war game with mediocre sculpts*: Warhammer Quest was a gateway drug into Warhammer after all, and those sculpts were TERRIBLE ;)
I would like to see dungeon furniture terrain as well though for sure.
Thanks
n
* I actually quite like many of the Mantic sculpts... Some are hard to work with though, for sure.
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It is a very misleading definition, apparently a 'co-op' game does not mean anything about players co-operating to achieve an aim/goal, it just means they are all playing on the same side.
To make it work I think it highly likely that Jake will develop specific victory conditions for each player character. So just like you get non 'co-op' games where players win by co-operating, here you will get a 'co-op' where players win by not!
I suggest you read the following post on Jake his blog too see his point on co-op, it's an interesting read about his vision :)
http://quirkworthy.com/2014/06/06/why-co-op-and-i-dont-get-on/
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One thought about co-op in DS, if I may.
As it stands, the primary incentive for the different Heroes to co-operate is that they jointly lose if one of them is crippled. The background for the mission is one that requires all of them to survive to get through the dungeon and complete the quest.
During a game they have to co-operate because each of them has different skills. This is most obvious with the physically weak wizard who doesn't last long in a fight. However, if they come to a warded door then no amount of strength will get them through it - you need the wizard. The two "journey" scenarios (the training ones) attempt to show each of the Heroes doing their thing, and the second requires a degree of co-operation between the elf and wizard for them to have much chance.
As the scenarios get larger this will become more apparent. It's early days and there's a lot of balancing and tweaking to do in order to get the pacing of each scenario right.
And while I'm here - psyberwyche - I'm not sure what "complicated mechanics" you're unhappy with. DS isn't KOW, though it is set in the same universe so many of the models can cross over. Not sure what's wrong with that (and that's all KOW has to do with DS). Including stats for the models that cross over sounds like a good thing for those who want to tinker with their own dungeon design. For people that don't it can be safely ignored. This is the crux of why there is a Core and an Advanced set of rules. The Core set allows people to play a simple and fast game and get that nostalgic dungeony goodness. Those that want to twiddle the knobs and waggle the levers can do so in their own sandbox called the Advanced rules. The two clearly share concepts and some rules, but are separate things.
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Thanks for dropping by Jake, it's good too hear your own points on the aspect of co-op and the rules.
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To clarify my earlier point, I think 'complicated mechanics' isn't what I meant. I'm not interested in add-on rules full stop, so for me, valuable stretch goals are new things unique to the game. I'd rather see some 3D furniture as a stretch goal before things like solo and co-op play, which I'm 99% sure I'll never use.
No offence to Jake as a rules writer, but it's the components that I'm really after, and while I think the base game components in this KS are nice, the Kings of War stuff isn't so much IMO. Personal preference and all that.
Cheers!
PS. @Neldorath - I love Warhammer Quest. There, I've said it. Only I replace all the duffest old sculpts with nicer ones. See, I'm all about nice-looking components!
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It has zombie trolls, what's not to like? ;)
I think I'll be getting the game - I never really felt satisfied by the WQ rules, so the whole taking-the-boardgame-to-an-RPG-like-level in the advanced rules - and making it possible to include minis from the extensive KOW-range - may be what I need to run a regular gaming group, not having the time to commit to full RPG game mastering.
I'll be on the fence for now, but I'm likely to jump in - the whole undead theme of the game is up my alley, and the repeated troll sculpts can be converted with a little effort. :)
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No offence taken psyberwyche. I've bought many a model for the model myself, and ignored the game it was ostensibly for :)
Value is a personal thing, and if it's components that you're focussing on then you'd be best served just watching to see what gets unlocked. Still well over a fortnight of stretch goals to come...
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Whilst the value you receive is hard to argue, I think by the end the value to me will not be worth my pledge. I already have a large collection of miniatures so was hoping to see more stretch goals for the base set including rules and 'gubbins' such as tiles and tokens. Also, not having a group to play board games regularly with means that I don't think I'll get the full benefit of the game. Solo play sounds fun enough but as with most things, its better with others involved.
Stretch goals unlocking expansions are fine and well but it's very difficult to judge whether they will be of any use to me before actually having the base game? Its like buying the 2nd and 3rd book in a trilogy before reading the 1st. Sure they are relatively cheap and you could always resell but there is no appeal personally.
I guess its trying to remember that this is a board game with nice playing pieces. Sure some of them will be suitable for other games but not without modification. I'll obviously wait until the end before making a decision on whether to keep my pledge or not but hearing that there is a Mantic fantasy skirmish game in the works makes me think I'd be best to hold fire and go all in on that instead ;D
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hearing that there is a Mantic fantasy skirmish game in the works makes me think I'd be best to hold fire and go all in on that instead ;D
I'm pretty sure, as Mantic goes, every mini is going to be useable for both - and as I'm going to base/rebase everything on washers, anyway, I'm just going to have more pieces to play with :D
But everyone his own cake - if you're primarily after the minis, I can see the reason for not staying on board for this - I like the concept of the game, as I expect it to be understandable for my children, all the while being 'scalable' to appeal to adult gamers, too.
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I am sticking with this pledge for the moment (basic game only no add-ons unless they release the furniture). To me the real value is the Advanced rulebook and all the associated card sets and tokens, and although I dont need them the figures are great and getting more figures, especially free ones, is never a problem. With the likelihood is of many more still to come.
However there was some interesting discussion yesterday on the comments thread (during one of its rare lucid periods) about the overall scope of the game and what it was likely to be and not be. Chris from Mantic mentioned that the Advanced section is now becoming very large and for eventual retail sale may be split away as a separate product as it is in danger of going beyond the retail price point they intend for the Dungeon Saga game.
Only guessing here but I see that giving a basic intro level boardgame that is a cross between Heroquest (play) and Advanced Heroquest (tiles): Rules and scenarios, dice/rulers/counters/tokens, 4 hero figures, 4 evil bosses, 18 enemy/monsters and presumably the basic scenery pack (which we have still not seen officially) and all the floorplan cards and rooms. I would imagine this will also have the co-op/solo system cards even though they are currently listed as an Advanced option, as not including them would lose Mantic a potential market.
An "Advanced" expansion which has more scenarios, all the KoW model range stats (plus hopefully the stats for monster types Mantic do not make yet), the design your own dungeon rules and all the extra hero figures and expanded character class rules and scenarios that they have along with the enhanced skills/abilities for existing basic game characters.
Then a series of smaller theme specific expansions containing new enemy figures and bosses and all the cards, tiles etc necessary to play them. Orc/Gobin expansion, Abyssal Dwarf expansion etc
Chris also said that would not affect the Kickstarter if that does turn out to be the case as backers will still get everything funded during the project. Just speculation on my part but does make the Kickstarter set a much more valuable offering, especially with the expansions being such a low price add-on (being partly made up of Stretch Goal extras).
I have asked about getting printed or pdf rules and scenario books separate from the game but no joy. Initially they will only be within the game box and expansions but may be published via Mantic Digital later.
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Personally, I don’t enjoy Pure Co-op games. Perhaps this is because I’m overly competitive, perhaps I’m just a curmudgeon who doesn’t play nice with others. However, every time I have played one of these games the following happens. Depending on which player you are, either:
- Someone else knows the game better then you do. They tell you what you need to do and so all you are doing is moving the pieces where you’re told to. Help in learning rules is fine and expected in any game. That may happen here too, but it is not the same thing. I don’t find this interesting or fun.
- You know the game better than everyone else. Either you tell them what they need to do (see first bullet point) or you sit and watch them mess things up. Losing because my allies did daft things isn’t fun either.
Now that I know you're watching this thread... I totally have a question for you regarding the above. If you could please have a look and tell me what you think I'd greatly appreciate it!
First, my experience with competitive games
Personally, I don’t enjoy competitive games. Perhaps this is because I’m overly lovey-dovey, perhaps I’m just a wuss who just can't man-it-up long enough to bring out the red in my personality and destroy my friends. However, every time I have played one of these competitive games the following happens. Depending on which player you are, either:
- Someone else knows the game better then you do. They quietly watch you make mistakes and exploit them brutally, destroying your will and self confidence and often gloating over it for weeks afterward. Help in learning rules is fine and expected in any game. That may happen here too, but it is not the same thing. I don’t find this interesting or fun.
- You know the game better than everyone else. Either you tell them about all of the mistakes they're making and work against your goal to win, or you sit and watch them mess things up and then brutally destroy them, gloating for weeks afterward (see first bullet point). Winning because my enemies did daft things isn’t fun either.
I find both of these situations extremely frustrating, intellectually stultifying and generally no fun at all. Nor do I relish the choice between meddling with someone else’s enjoyment or losing my own.
So, based on my experiences with competitive games above, I have two questions:
- Do you realize that your two very narrow points about cooperative games don't nearly cover the entire range of possibilities? Did you read my experience of competitive games and think of other scenarios (for example, both players are equally good) that are also possible? And then realize that that's also the case with co-op games?
- Did you realize that based on my competitive experience that I must have a pack of worthless friends?!? You are right of course.* Friends that make you feel worse about yourself aren't really friends, and that's true for both competitive games and co-op games.
So, based on your blog post about co-op games, I'm beginning to think that part of your issue with them is that you're not open minded about them. Have you started any co-op game with a pre-conception that it's not going to suck? It's sad really, because you have talent when it comes to game rules, and I'm sure that if you took up the challenge to create a good co-op you'd make an amazing one!
Thanks
n
* Just for the record, my friends are actually pretty cool :) We play co-op games all the time and it's fantastic fun!
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I think any games designer obviously seeks to design a game that he enjoys --- with the hopes that others will enjoy it. I admit when I created my first game, it was an answer to all of the things I didn't like, or liked about other games. It was only after some friendly games and cons that people convinced me to sell it to other people. I agree with the right group of friends a co-op game can be fantastic.
I play computer games exclusively co-op. My concern is more with games which are created in one fashion...and then molded into another fashion. While they've announced a kind of co-op/AI option for Dungeon Saga I can't imagine it's going to be quite as polished or have as much enthusiasm behind the design. My take is simple, I have no vested interest in Mantic's success. If they design a game the way they want I either like or I don't.
It's their baby, and they can do what they want with it. I can vote with my moneys. lol
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It was only after some friendly games and cons that people convinced me to sell it to other people.
Elbows: Which game have you done?
I have to admit that co-op is not my thing at all, I much prefer a GM moderated game, both as a GM and as a player. For me the rebirth of 0ed D&D/AD&D in whichever flavour you prefer (Osric, Swords and Wizardry, Lamentations, Labyrinth Lord) is wonderful, putting the emphasis back on the story and the roleplay, as opposed to the rule and table bloat of Pathfinder and D&D 3.5/4. This is where I hope Jake is taking the advanced option version of Dwarf Kings Quest, giving the players a basic selection of attributes and skills and putting the onus on them to "be the character" rather than rely on a myriad of stats, tables and dice rolls to resolve everything.
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Rob, got my hands in a couple of projects, only published one is the Old West set Shoot N' Skedaddle.
Unfortunately - from the interview he did on a YouTube page, Jake seemed to make very clear that it isn't a role-playing game. Now...that being said, I've always been a giant proponent of making a game into what you want to play. Unless you're limited by attending tournament games, or play competitively against very strict opponents, I don't see why you couldn't use Dungeon Saga, Hero Quest etc. to meld with a role-playing experience.
I know someone had a big huge book of random dungeon tables they created. I see no reason why you couldn't create or add an additional element of role-playing to the game. I, like you, often enjoy a DM driven game when it comes to dungeon crawls. Not necessarily so that someone is trying their very hardest to kill your heroes, but because it widely expands the adventure and story. I like when a DM is privy to adventure information which we're not. I like when a DM creates a mission or heavily modifies one from the book. It gives the game far more interest. Do you kill the shadowy figure - or wait to see what he says? Will he give you information or cast a spell on you? Do you hop into the grimy chute which leads into the inky blackness - or continue on down the lit hallway...etc.
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....got my hands in a couple of projects, only published one is the Old West set Shoot N' Skedaddle.....
Cool, nice to have a bit of this hobby that is down to you.
I don't need Dwarf Kings Quest to be an rpg as I have Swords and Wizardry for that style of game. I want this one to have some elements of what makes an rpg fun; opportunities for non combat skills and actions as well as the fighting and spellcasting, but as a stand alone game with no linking campaign history or world to populate and develop and no "down time" sessions. More akin to a skirmish wargame than an rpg, but with elements of both.
I am hoping there is more to DKQ than just a succession of "run here, kill that, grab those" dice rolling. If there isn't I will probably drop my pledge as I don't need the figures or scenery so although it is looking like great value for those that do I only really want the rules.
**edit for awful punctuation**
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@ Neldoreth - I don't assume that all co-op games will be like this, it's just my experience. I'd rather it wasn't, and have tried to play a number of them on the recommendations of people whose judgement I thought was sound. I generally go into them thinking that "this will be different" rather "than this will suck". Why would I waste my limited gaming time on things I expected to be rubbish? I've got stacks of games I really want to play just waiting for some time to get them on the table.
I'm not sure why they must be a favourite medium of mine for me to be any good at designing them. If we said that the only people who could build Formula 1 cars were drivers that had won Grand Prix, you'd probably tell me that was nonsense. Like the mechanics that build those cars, I think I understand and know I enjoy manipulating the rules that govern the process and can build a finely-tuned machine.
@ robh - Dungeon Sagas isn't an RPG. The Advanced game could be expanded on, and I've already had a few comments from folk who intend just that. However, Mantic aren't currently interested in that format. I'm sure they'll get there though ;)
The Advanced rules include downtime between adventures and should build on the non-combat aspects such as sneaking about, picking locks and so on.
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Thanks Jake,
When you say ".....The Advanced rules include downtime between adventures....."
I take it that means you allow "out of game" for learning new skills, improving abilities etc rather than a game session spent trawling local taverns for clues and finding someone to train you in new combat techniques etc....
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Yes. As I said, it's not a full-on RPG so there won't be sessions chatting up barmaids and gambling with the local thieves, amusing though that may be. I'm preparing a series of short articles for Quirkworthy about this and other aspects of the Advanced rules. Should be up in the next few days.
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@ Neldoreth - I'm not sure why they must be a favourite medium of mine for me to be any good at designing them. If we said that the only people who could build Formula 1 cars were drivers that had won Grand Prix, you'd probably tell me that was nonsense. Like the mechanics that build those cars, I think I understand and know I enjoy manipulating the rules that govern the process and can build a finely-tuned machine.
You're absolutely correct. Okay, I stand corrected and I look forward to seeing what you come up with!
Thanks for the response, I appreciate it :)
n.
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Yes. As I said, it's not a full-on RPG so there won't be sessions chatting up barmaids and gambling with the local thieves, amusing though that may be. I'm preparing a series of short articles for Quirkworthy about this and other aspects of the Advanced rules. Should be up in the next few days.
It reminds me a bit of WHQuest in that sense. There is nothing sopping you using a bit of imagination to role play certain aspects of things that go on between adventures anyway. Perhaps a brawl with some other NPCs in an Inn! The more detailed stuff doesn't need to have die rolls to it, just discussion if needs be.
Slightly off topic, but I have to admit my fav era of GW was when the 'Fat Dwarf' was dropping through my letterbox - I believe you were behind quite a lot of stuff back then, so thank you for some rather brilliant childhood (well teenage anyway) wargaming memories. Did you ever work on WHQuest?
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^This. lol I spent a lot of time in the GW hobby (and I'm glad to be rid of it) but the best era was the era of the great box games - late 90's. Warhammer Quest, Mordheim, Necromunda, Gorka Morka (okay so that wasn't great...) etc. I liked how they supported WHQ for a time as well. Good times.
My future dungeon crawl will definitely be heavily inspired by the feel of WHQ. I'm hoping that beyond the Alpha rules, this one does as well.
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^This. lol I spent a lot of time in the GW hobby (and I'm glad to be rid of it) but the best era was the era of the great box games - late 90's. Warhammer Quest, Mordheim, Necromunda, Gorka Morka (okay so that wasn't great...) etc. I liked how they supported WHQ for a time as well. Good times.
My future dungeon crawl will definitely be heavily inspired by the feel of WHQ. I'm hoping that beyond the Alpha rules, this one does as well.
Agreed, and I feel lucky to have played all those games!
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QuickQuestion, is QW Jake Thorton?
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QuickQuestion, is QW Jake Thorton?
Yes (http://quirkworthy.com/about/).
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New update (http://e3.kickstarter.com/wf/click?upn=GIpASGceSQNttgOB3hYlXdXHNi2UCH9zzWbeLVK6afFILekgo1YqUvutLdG24jGYoAGFmDzHHZw-2F7M49mvafQbtTza9piBo4BI2Fv6tj8DvvY1sb1L2tPuGTM6YX8EYUT8rY3eI2fQk4GgXTMRZe3pS4qwfQrsaFtGn6r4oYcjcG1ykWcNsc8bUimMxpE2v3hKSSSZaoHSnREkn-2BG6GJ6NuHCmbbScqqD4KE2fnmPIrAA3e8wI34ejeSaCvu9g6emzXm0eCqkIPZT-2BQ8YuZGOVvK4Leqidahs-2BTaiVLj4dh5Ck56z2-2BZvlkYpF3-2F5pcOyZTVfhkHNC6Cfoc2Za1oBt3cwyVfV2-2Fkt-2BTDI5JiJ4OxdGD-2B-2FkVewW1ccDRU6JNS_dHgnsWd-2FqC1-2FzFVDGKCEOnMjtDJ8DLPsWTHbEHOYKcUnf6By9EqJyhyU7EKOrL1mjv1Qvd1MwpvEG4H-2Ba4Js2Z3Zu0JeC1guSHj0A1QyzeCUyxeB99ySpUKFg2vf55GYkCN3ODeZ93xZAgUUfQbkotytbdZ3OL7eAu1mDiRsKLi-2FzfcETtAwTYd4baWxvey7g-2F2YTkfVIF2LJ-2Frlx1YRVg-3D-3D)
Dungeon furniture in plastic announced. Looks good, free at $100 and also an addon for $15
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Furniture looks alright... Impractical table and Starship Enterprise Captain's Chair aside. Not sure it wows me much though, and certainly not enough to want to buy it separately. :?
One thing that struck me though; the squares on the boards and the models' bases look to be the same size. This is not very practical when you have to place 3-5 models in adjacent squares (it was a problem with the older GW dungeon crawlers too). Be nice if the squares were say 22mm to suit a 20mm base (...or 27mm to suit 25mm bases) - that way you literally have a little "wiggle room".
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I am pleased with the furniture pieces, nothing amazing certainly, but an appropriate selection of the standard dungeon pieces. I imagine the Throne and Crypt are designed for specific key scenarios.
At $15 I think a fair price too. If the Kickstarter goes high enough I hope they will add some different pieces as well.
**edit**
Mantic have just announced on the comments thread that the 3D furniture set will contain more pieces than just those shown in the picture. No more details yet but looking to be even better value now.
Kickstarter Link:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest)
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Yup.
Without trying to be harsh - there is absolutely no point in Mantic trying to make top of the range dungeon furniture for this project. It would cost more money and it would have to be better or compete with a lot of existing dungeon furniture ranges from good sources such as Fenris Games.
£9 is what these cost roughly - as a separate set. I think you'd be hard pushed to find a set like this for that price. So it's not the best you will see, but nor is it the most expensive.
I really have no issue with what is being offered with this. It's a dungeon crawling game, so far it has provided a range of miniatures - a nice selection of heroes to choose from and a nice amount of nasty baddies for them to slaughter on their way to a chest full of treasure.
It's also becoming clear, to me at least, that there is more than one set included. Looks to me like there is a core set and possibly an expansion as well. So again, opportunity to get the lot at a reduced rate.
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I've been wondering about this, especially since there's really only one pledge level offered.
I like dungeon crawlers and even though I just plonked down money for Super Dungeon, I wouldn't mind a more "realistic" game.
It's just that I pretty much already have all this stuff.
- I already have a boatload of generic fantasy minis, both painted and waiting in the queue. Getting another 6 skeletons or whatever is not a huge selling point when I already have 151 painted ones, nevermind the shame pile.
- I already have a 3-D dungeon set I built, and if I really wanted to play on cardboard tiles for some reason, I still own the original GW dungeon floorplans from the 80's.
- Tokens, dice etc. Who doesn't have them?
So I guess I could buy just the rules if that was an option. Otherwise I'll have to see if this goes crazy enough to warrant buying just based on the sheer volume of figures included (though that would go against my resolution not to buy minis just because they are cheap).
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Let's be honest...how many of us in this thread "need" this stuff? lol Nice to see some bonus furniture...can always use more of that. I admit at this point the KS is doing better than I had thought it would.
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Honestly?
I don't need anything whatsoever :)
Still I hope to start playing light dungeon crawl games with my son within about 6-8 years and don't mind using that as an excuse to try as many systems as possible.
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If gamers bought only what they needed then the entire industry would collapse.
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If gamers bought only what they needed then the entire industry would collapse.
Don't ever, ever say that to my wife . . . . . she thinks I need most of what I buy!!! ;D
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If gamers bought only what they needed then the entire industry would collapse.
lol
Quite true of all industries that provide some form of entertainment.
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Don't ever, ever say that to my wife . . . . . she thinks I need most of what I buy!!! ;D
Switch to what I say "well, this is from a Kickstarter I pledged for...ages ago..." lol (crumple receipt, run and hide)
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Switch to what I say "well, this is from a Kickstarter I pledged for...ages ago..." lol (crumple receipt, run and hide)
euhmm... I'm using that one for non-kickstarters related packages that show up... the delays in all the kickstarters are already saving my *ss ;D
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lol
I know. I bet what will happen though is they will all arrive on one day. That's when you kick the dog out of the kennel and set up your own bed inside it.
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Plastic furniture stretch goal was passed last night so that set (final contents still to be decided) is now included free in the box. Next up are some more Orc type figures to bulk out the expansion pack with extras in the basic box too.
Still 2 weeks to go and currently about $405k pledged.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/439/435/014fd71112d20895d344f691c868b690_large.jpg?1408107705)
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Plastic furniture stretch goal was passed last night so that set (final contents still to be decided) is now included free in the box. Next up are some more Orc type figures to bulk out the expansion pack with extras in the basic box too.
Still 2 weeks to go and currently about $405k pledged.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/439/435/014fd71112d20895d344f691c868b690_large.jpg?1408107705)
I still see people around the Web saying this is bad value for money, but for £60 I'm gonna be happy with half of that.
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D&D adventure sets are £40 ish and come with 40 Figures, so with the furniture for me it's just about worth the £60, I definately would not be happy with half that for the money.
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The picture they are using is now split into 4 sections:
Top is the retail box core game (missing 1 still unknown hero figure) and the new scenery.
2nd is the advanced rules (may be in the box or not depending on how big it gets and the rrp they have in mind for the game)
3rd are the Kickstarter extra "free" bonus figures
4th are the Kickstarter or Mantic special promo exclusives
Assuming the rrp for the core game is around the £40-£50 mark (a similar pricing to Mars Attacks although having less figures but a lot more rule content). If so that leaves the question, are the extra bonus figures, the exclusives and the discount on the existing Mantic figures and the Expansion worth £10-£20 more for the Kickstarter pledge?
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The picture they are using is now split into 4 sections:
Top is the retail box core game (missing 1 still unknown hero figure) and the new scenery.
2nd is the advanced rules (may be in the box or not depending on how big it gets and the rrp they have in mind for the game)
3rd are the Kickstarter extra "free" bonus figures
4th are the Kickstarter or Mantic special promo exclusives
Assuming the rrp for the core game is around the £40-£50 mark (a similar pricing to Mars Attacks although having less figures but a lot more rule content). If so that leaves the question, are the extra bonus figures, the exclusives and the discount on the existing Mantic figures and the Expansion worth £10-£20 more for the Kickstarter pledge?
I suppose it depends.
The next stretch goal is another set of adventures, which suggests at least, that it would be an expansion. It depends whether you think you get enough Orcs to be able to play it through properly or not.
I certainly don't think this is bad value for money. As I have said before, people compare this to the likes of the Bones game where you got no rules or game aids etc and purely miniatures - which had for the most part already been sculpted and had master castings etc.
In this instance you are paying for brand new miniatures.
As for the DnD board game. I have one and whilst it is really nice - it doesn't really offer a lot in terms of progression. Also, the miniatures are 'ok' but not looking as good as the current offering with this KS.
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I think it is a very reasonable value. I don't expect this Kickstarter to be one of the extreme ones (where you seemingly get loads of free kit). In the U.S. many of the big nice boardgames now days are around $85-90 MSRP. So this really fits in line with the premium board game genre market here. I would bet money eventually this core box will be available for $65-ish at discount at a normal retailer, so the Kickstarter won't be saving someone a ton of money.
However, for the value I think it's completely in line. Honestly I could do without the KS myself but I like toys and will enjoy some of the cool peculiar sculpts.
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As for the DnD board game. I have one and whilst it is really nice - it doesn't really offer a lot in terms of progression. Also, the miniatures are 'ok' but not looking as good as the current offering with this KS.
Well it's a D&D game... the progression is spending hundreds of pounds on D&D books lol....
But I agree, it's now looking to be ok value for money, my point was simply that unlike the previous poster to mine I would not be happy as they would with half the contents it now has, because IMO the buyer would be better of with Descent or D&D adventure games and downloading another set of rules (like dungeon delves or something).
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Let's be honest...how many of us in this thread "need" this stuff?
Yes, but I still see a difference.
I have backed... (checking) 57 projects on Kickstarter.
They fall into three basic categories:
- Just to show support and receive news. These are nominal $1 pledges.
- Stuff I don't already have
- Stuff that I might have, but the deal is too good to pass
Right now, Dungeon Saga is in the first category.
Why did I pledge $100+ for MYTH and Super Dungeon Explore without blinking an eye while I hesitate on Dungeon Saga?
MYTH was in the third category when I jumped on the bandwagon. I don't know if the game will be any good, but I'll be getting a boatload of minis. With some rather uniquely styled monsters, mind you.
Super Dungeon Explore simply has a style unlike anything else I have.
Dungeon Saga is too classic for me. I'm already swimming in generic fantasy figures and dungeon tiles (and bluntly put, my 3-D tiles are way better than any cardboard concoction will ever be). There is no selling point.
The project might move into the third category, but for me right now it is not there.
I kinda feel sorry for you Jake, but rules are just about the last thing a KS project can be sold on. There just isn't enough time to positively ascertain the quality of the rules. I fully expect to trash the rules on just about every KS project I've bought into.
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Yes, but I still see a difference.
I have backed... (checking) 57 projects on Kickstarter.
They fall into three basic categories:
- Just to show support and receive news. These are nominal $1 pledges.
- Stuff I don't already have
- Stuff that I might have, but the deal is too good to pass
Right now, Dungeon Saga is in the first category.
Why did I pledge $100+ for MYTH and Super Dungeon Explore without blinking an eye while I hesitate on Dungeon Saga?
MYTH was in the third category when I jumped on the bandwagon. I don't know if the game will be any good, but I'll be getting a boatload of minis. With some rather uniquely styled monsters, mind you.
Super Dungeon Explore simply has a style unlike anything else I have.
Dungeon Saga is too classic for me. I'm already swimming in generic fantasy figures and dungeon tiles (and bluntly put, my 3-D tiles are way better than any cardboard concoction will ever be). There is no selling point.
The project might move into the third category, but for me right now it is not there.
I kinda feel sorry for you Jake, but rules are just about the last thing a KS project can be sold on. There just isn't enough time to positively ascertain the quality of the rules. I fully expect to trash the rules on just about every KS project I've bought into.
I'm sort of with Masson here. The game in and of itself looks interesting. But I have €1,000 invested in Otherworld minis, DF tiles and well rules for them are easy to come by, it's hard to justify another dungeon crawl, especially a totally unproven one. 'Rules' on KS are not so much a selling point for me, simply because so many have been utter crap upon publication. It all looks interesting, and I hope you break that trend, but I have a very very hard time justifying another dungeon crawl.....
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Well I'm just a big undead fan. The fact I can get some cool looking undead beasties of a few different races is quite appealing. Also my little boy is getting into heroquest so this game looks like a step up from that.
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I'm with TooBooCoo on this in that without something to "wow" me, I'm not feeling it personally.
I have, counting various editions, 5 fantasy dungeon crawlers already, and my friends have at least 2 more different ones.
So unless this one has/does something really good/original/something else that makes it stand out from the crowd, I'm just not seeing why I should buy in.
However, for somebody who has one/none such games, I could see this KS being attractive and I do like the other games I've got that Jake has written. ...I guess that's maybe the target audience?
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However, for somebody who has one/none such games, I could see this KS being attractive and I do like the other games I've got that Jake has written. ...I guess that's maybe the target audience?
I guess we are just not the target audience.
The target audience is more like someone who used to have HeroQuest, has fond memories of it but has sold/lost it and just wants a nostalgic dungeon crawler boardgame that's ready to play out of the box.
They may paint the figures but probably won't.
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I think I've come full circle from backer, to wavering, to supporting it again. There's a lot of stuff for one's cash here now, and even a cynic like me can't complain about the value. I pretty much collect this type of game, from Heroquest, Advanced HQ, Warhammer Quest, D&D adventure boardgames, Ravenloft etc (how much I actually play them is another matter...) - this one looks to be getting better with each update. The only thing it's missing for me now is a big bad monster - a dragon, zombie dragon, giant or somesuch would be the icing on the cake.
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Newest update is for trolls to be added. Just one for the base pledge but three if you are opting for the expansion... Which I now have added to my pledge.
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In one of the video interviews they were quite specific that the target market for the end product of this is new gamers, this is designed as an entry level game.
The target market for the Kickstarter is people like us, either as psyberwyche says, looking to recapture the fun of HQ or AHQ/WQ with friends or children, or gamers who already have similar games but will always buy another especially if it comes with lots of figures and stuff. Gamers like stuff! Virtually everyone following the KickStarter seems to be discussing the Advanced version of the game.
Jake mentioned on his blog that he is intending/hoping to get the revised Alpha playtest rules out today.
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I very much want to get into daungeon crawlers. I don't own any. Not even components. The price is not too bad.
Still, I think I won't pledge. The undeads aside, I just don't like the Mantic sculpting style, which is, I don't how to put it better... dry. If this game would GW style figures, a bit more "lively" ones, I suppose, I'd pledge in a heartbeat. And I'm not a GW fanboy, not at all.
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Looks as if the plastic furniture is not going to be included in the retail box game, it has been moved into the Kickstarter only bonus minis section of the pledge graphic.
Not so much the "new Heroquest" after all :(
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That's unfortunate but it makes you wonder what the retail price of the box game may be. My take on the target audience is the huge mass of Warhammer/Warmachine/Kings of War players who have that as their one primary hobby (I know plenty of folks who "game" but ONLY game Warhammer etc.). However many of those players will recognize or have played Hero Quest. Also, much as with GW - I think it's a good idea from a company like Mantic solely because it's a game they can sell to hobby shops without the hobby shop investing in thousands of dollars of boxes, blisters, etc.
As a normal hobby shop it must be difficult to get new buys to pick up Warhammer-style games. It's a big investment, and hard to explain how it all works. Having a simple "buy this, play this" box on the shelf is always a good thing for a company. Plenty of non-gamers would pick up the Dungeon Saga box off the shelf and look at it as nothing more than a dungeon crawl board game.
The KS is currently where I hoped it would go, so my $100 is well spent. Anything else would just be icing on the cake at this point. I don't need any of this stuff, but it's a good mix of minis and now some terrain. I can't complain.
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Hi
Does any one have any Inside info on the solo rules, will it really work?
Thanks
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It's a matter of faith Adam.
At the moment the advanced rules are nothing more than ideas and concepts so no-one knows. Personally, it is not an area of the game I am especially interested in, but yes, I think they will work.
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It's a matter of faith Adam.
At the moment the advanced rules are nothing more than ideas and concepts so no-one knows. Personally, it is not an area of the game I am especially interested in, but yes, I think they will work.
Aye same here, never had much interest in solo rules , but i trust the mantic pretty well when it comes to rules.
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Looks as if the plastic furniture is not going to be included in the retail box game, it has been moved into the Kickstarter only bonus minis section of the pledge graphic.
Not so much the "new Heroquest" after all :(
Heroquest had those card-board and plastic furniture right? Did they have anything other than bookshelves?
Thanks
n
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Closing in the $500k stretch goal which is the Abyssal/Demon expansion. Fairly generic looking concepts which makes them suitable for uses outside the game. At the low price Mantic are putting on the expansion sets getting 2 or 3 would give enough rank and file troops to work with the much better large Demon figures and Beasts from Heresy or Reaper. Very cool army for God of Battles or Fanticide.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/473/929/c0c06edc5a66dcd026f95fa1d24a6cbe_large.jpg)
That is the expansion starter, if it progresses like the orc expansion, there will be double that number of figures including a boss/large monster type.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest)
Neldoreth: Yes Heroquest had tombs, alchemists bench, weapon racks, torture rack, cupboard, altar, tables, chests and a fireplace.
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Yeah, I've lost interest (still pledging) since they basically max'ed out the release box. Almost all of the latest unlocks have been unlocking expansions - something I don't care about because I won't be buying them. I'm more than pleased with the box contents but I don't imagine we'll be getting any more for the $100 pledge --- maybe one or two special characters.
The Abyssal expansion is weak at $25 (compared to the greenskin one) so I imagine further unlocks will just pad that - maybe give us a couple of free fiery fellas in the main box. Stretch goals have just wandered away from the $100 pledge for now. Overall, decent result. Curious to see if it spikes as most do in the last 2-3 days.
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Yep. I'm beginning to lose interest as well. More interested in heresy monsters now as I'll probably get around to painting them. Leaving off the expansions unless I can add them in at a later date.
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$515,000 – BONUS Forces of the Abyss, Adventurer’s Companion upgrade
If we hit this stretch goal, we will upgrade the bestiary in the Adventurer’s Companion to contain all of the different types of enemies from the Abyss.
To get you started with the red devils, we will include not 1, not 2 but 3 Abyssal miniatures in a pledge of Dungeon Master ($100 and Early Bird): 2 different types of Lower Abyssal and 1 Lower Abyssal Magi!
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I'm starting to get quite excited by this KS - but I can't decide if I'd actually play the game that much.
The amount of stuff you get in the base game and the first expansion look very good value for money (and I expect the Abyssal expansion will grow to the size of the Orc one too).
The funding has really shot up over the last few days, the above goal has nearly been reached over night.
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It's following a very typical KS pattern...big jump initially due to excitement and "new" quality...then it flattens out for the middle two weeks. Then the final week (particularly the last two days) will sky-rocket an additional 50% usually.
In fact, I'll say...$713K as my final guess.
Now, I'm just more curious if Mantic has shot their bolt with the extras for the main box though. Three plastic figures is a nice add on. If we hit another, say $100-150K I'm curious if any of the further stretches will really benefit the standard pledge level. I'm not overly excited to spend even $25 extra on expansions since the game will likely not be played too much (not enough to warrant an expansion purchase).
Always fun to watch the last week of a Kickstarter though, regardless.
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Yes, I was expecting a final surge towards the end, but interesting that it is happening now, I think in part to the release of the higher value pledges.
The Orc expansion at £15 for 17 figures (including 2 or 3 big ones) + tiles and cards and rules, looks well worth getting, especially with a further 10 or so Greenskins added to the base game.
The only other add on that appeals so far is the resin bone piles and wound makers.
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I am sticking with my pledge for the basic set only, no add ons during the KS but may pick up the expansions to keep the rules and cards and trade off the figures and floorplans.
I would prefer a pdf "print & play" version of the expansion rulebooks but they have said no plans for that currently.
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Heroquest had those card-board and plastic furniture right? Did they have anything other than bookshelves?
Yeah, it had quite a bit of stuff.
I redid much of it replacing the card parts with other stuff. Here's a couple of examples:
(http://www.swob.kvy.fi/photo-archive/20050724/thumb/1.jpg)
(http://www.swob.kvy.fi/photo-archive/20050820/thumb/92.jpg)
(http://www.swob.kvy.fi/photo-archive/20050820/thumb/93.jpg)
There were tables, weapon racks, bookshelves, coffins etc.
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Yep. That made heroquest so cool.
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According to Chris at Mantic there is still no final decision on whether the plastic furniture will or won't be in the retail box. He said it will be decided later when the core game is launched.
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If you are backing it on KS then you'll definitely get it all, which is why they aren't so worried about deciding now about retail versions.
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I can see those Abyssal guys as something I might get in droves when released for KoW, to make a GoB28 proxy army from :D
The Force of Nature also sounds very interesting. The world of Mantica is separating itself further from being a Warhamster lookalike, which is definitely a good thing in my book!
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Forces of Nature for KoW is cool - I built an army (in 10mm) from this list, and it was both great fun to put together, and plays well. Its good to see some of the heroes in DS being from the Nature lists.
The abyssal from DS seem to be offering rather more choice than the KoW ones - which is good as the KoW list was a bit thin. If the DS ones make it back in to KoW that would be cool.
I think it was quite clever of Mantic to start with KoW armies that are similar to those in a certain well known 28mm world, but they now seem to be happy to branch out a bit further.
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Forces of Nature for KoW is cool - I built an army (in 10mm) from this list, and it was both great fun to put together, and plays well. Its good to see some of the heroes in DS being from the Nature lists.
The abyssal from DS seem to be offering rather more choice than the KoW ones - which is good as the KoW list was a bit thin. If the DS ones make it back in to KoW that would be cool.
I think it was quite clever of Mantic to start with KoW armies that are similar to those in a certain well known 28mm world, but they now seem to be happy to branch out a bit further.
Aye, as much as the world of mantica still reflects the old world very much, mantic now have the freedom to make it a bit more unique, adding in the fish people and salamander men (which is an awesome take on draconian/lizardmen) and still providing enough of the classic fantasy tropes for people to not find it too odd.
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I'm definately looking forward to recieve my Dungeon Saga box next year; it really looks so great and sounds just like the Dungeon Crawler I've been looking for :)
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If you are backing it on KS then you'll definitely get it all,
:D
Jake, any idea yet when you can get the revised Alpha out?
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Curious that $500K goal was reached and it's been quiet since then. $37K additional has been pledged. Normally the last few days are the big bumps, so I hope Mantic doesn't lose some sales by going quiet in the last week.
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Curious that $500K goal was reached and it's been quiet since then. $37K additional has been pledged. Normally the last few days are the big bumps, so I hope Mantic doesn't lose some sales by going quiet in the last week.
There's been 2 more stretch goals reached and another put up since then along with a 3500 backer reward? EDIT : sorry 3850... could have sworn it was less than that last night... lol.
$515,000 – BONUS Forces of the Abyss, Adventurer’s Companion upgrade
$530,000 – BONUS ENEMIES Succubi!
3,850 Backer Stretch Goal: BONUS SCENARIOS!
$545,000 BONUS Abyssal Tortured Souls
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Yeah I just saw those - pretty poor, just odd that they're being listed and not shown on the promotion images like all the others. Was hoping for something cool to make the final push. We shall see.
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They have images in the update as usual:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/484/491/12d2051414ac98bdb3813654be7c6388_large.jpg?1408975175 (https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/484/491/12d2051414ac98bdb3813654be7c6388_large.jpg?1408975175)
(linked only 'cos its a bit of an oversized image)
I don't think that what is showing at the moment is the final push, they have the bosses for the Abyssal expansion still to show (probably next) as without them the expansion is not complete. Maybe as a 560k goal?
I am sure Mantic will have plans for some big eye catching monsters and other incentives still to come. This has been a very well planned and managed KS campaign, no way they will fumble it now.
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So when do you think they'll reveal the Mars Attacks Dungeon-Exploration Team? They did make a Dreadball deck to play Martians, so it's not that much of a stretch.
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Rob,
Yeah, personally I think when you're down to the closing days - unlocking stuff for optional expansions is not going to clinch final sales. With no interest in the expansions at all, the unlocks are pointless to me. I suspect that's the same with plenty of people who have been watching the KS but have not yet signed on. I imagine Mantic will release a couple more bonuses to the basic pledge level. I do suspect perhaps a KS limited "big baddy" like a dragon or something.
Always entertaining to watch, but a single abyssal figure or flushing out expansions is not going to be raking in the people on the fence. lol
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@Elbows - even if you don't want the expansions, the stretch goals have been adding extra models to the basic set too.
@Michka - don't give them ideas!
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Big abyss beastie added as the $570,000 stretch goal.
They look pretty nice, and should be big if they really do come with a 50mm base!
(I may name one scumspawn and one satan)
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@Elbows - even if you don't want the expansions, the stretch goals have been adding extra models to the basic set too.
@Michka - don't give them ideas!
Yep, but not nearly as attractive as the early goals - that's all. I think perhaps some of the cool adventurers etc. should be reserved for the closing days, instead of little piece-meal baddies. Simply personal opinion, and I hope to be proved wrong in the last few days. :D
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Anyone else think the map tiles suffer from not having a wide black border like the ones from Warhammer Quest? The border made the WHQ tiles look really substantial, even if they were only a double corridor. The single block wide corridor in DS looks measly, and a little silly by comparison, and any decent sized miniature will hang over the edges.
Black borders would also help players mix WHQ and DS tiles. I'd love to buy a half a dozen tile sets and make a huge mega-dungeon that takes days to crawl through, but the borderless tiles look so cheap. Finally, an easily accessible dungeon crawler tile set, and I'm hesitating to put money down :'( I don't wanna feel like this, guys.
(Apologies for the whine, it's been brewing since the KS started).
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If you put fat black borders on it does look nice, but you hugely restrict the ways you can join them up. I think the ability to join up the tiles in several million more ways is more important. Personally, I'd recommend laying them out on a black cloth or table anyway as this looks great!
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I must say now you are getting a lot for £100! Tempting, tempting.....
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Just to chip in that whilst the black borders looked really good on the WHQ tiles, it did make them a pain to build a coherent dungeon with.
I have said previously though that I'd like to see the squares be 2-3mm bigger in width than the model bases so that the models are easier to fit onto the board tiles... Got no response though, so I doubt that will happen. :?
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I have said previously though that I'd like to see the squares be 2-3mm bigger in width than the model bases so that the models are easier to fit onto the board tiles
That is a good idea, it gets difficult to manoeuvre figures when you have 3 or 4 together even when they are on the D&DM round bases, with these square bases it is going to be even worse. Not to mention when the evil player has to get his/her fingers in amongst them to remove/convert a bone counter.
I must say now you are getting a lot for £100! Tempting, tempting.....
Yes, now you are; core box game, advanced rules, 3d scenery, 2 expansion sets and a few of the now ubiquitous KS exclusives to sell on ebay later, all with shipping included.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest)
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oh man I so want a good dungeon crawl, and yes you do get a lot of stuff for $100, but I am just unable to love the Mantic sculpts... they are so plain, every race... I'm bummed
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Yes, now you are; core box game, advanced rules, 3d scenery, 2 expansion sets and a few of the now ubiquitous KS exclusives to sell on ebay later, all with shipping included.
And of course it's £60 not a hundred!
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The whole set is £100 including shipping to those of us in Europe, the core game without the orc + demon expansions is £60
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I might just go core....
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@Major Gilbear - I asked about this. They said that the bases were sculpted at exactly 25mm across, which means that they will be slightly smaller when you get the final models (due to shrinkage in the various processes between original and final product). Shrinkage is normal (unavoidable even), though the exact amount varies depending on the materials and processes used (and the will of the gods). In this case it is expected to be in the order of 1-2mm on the bases, so should work fine :)
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Not sure if the question has been asked yet but of which material are the tiles made? Thin or thick cartonboard. It would be nice it was thick cartonboard such as the d&d boardgame. And then I would be tempted to pledge.
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Not sure if the question has been asked yet but of which material are the tiles made? Thin or thick cartonboard. It would be nice it was thick cartonboard such as the d&d boardgame. And then I would be tempted to pledge.
They have made a point of emphasizing THICK card, so i think you're good.
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The card is the same stuff used in Descent by FFG, if that helps.
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@Major Gilbear - I asked about this. They said that the bases were sculpted at exactly 25mm across, which means that they will be slightly smaller when you get the final models (due to shrinkage in the various processes between original and final product). Shrinkage is normal (unavoidable even), though the exact amount varies depending on the materials and processes used (and the will of the gods). In this case it is expected to be in the order of 1-2mm on the bases, so should work fine :)
Aha, well that's good news! Thank you for taking the time to ask, and for getting back to me with the answer. :)
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I'll be re-basing the figures for use in other games regardless. Even with some shrinkage, 25mm squares will prove really difficult to use with 3D terrain like DF (particularly in the 2-square wide hallways). I'm not worried about it. Same goes for the 50mm squares- they'll end up on 40mm rounds. My hope (unlikely) is that the figures are posted to the base ala Dust, but I won't be surprised if they're not.
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Okay, I'm in for the $150 for the core set and the two orcs and demons packs.
Co-op dungeon crawl here I come! I'll try to fit it in between my D&D co-op dungeon crawl, Mice & Mystics, and Myth :)
Thanks
n
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Starting to pick up momentum now, approaching $660k going into the last 2 days (ends Sunday night UK time).
New Add on offer ($30) for a big hardcover rulebook/bestiary, more figures added to the demons expansion and the KS bonus and a lot of exclusive resin versions of the adventurers and creatures.
Also more information on how the Advanced game aspects are going to look:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest/posts/966715 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest/posts/966715)
(Jake is expanding on the outlines on his blog)
Next major stretch goal has just gone up: $700k to unlock a major undead demon monster free for the KS backers, apparently the biggest figure they have done. The Kickstarter backers are being asked to comment on the 3 rough design ideas to determine which is produced. Going to be an interesting couple of days.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest)
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Yep, I'm happy to see the big undead creature thing. I'm a little "eh" about an abyssal campaign being added to the initial KS as it serves little/no purpose if you don't purchase the Abyssal expansion (I'd imagine the handful of miniatures won't be enough to run the campaign). The digital content book...eh. None of this is a surprise to me, but I'm glad to see something big for the basic set. The Abyssal set is almost intriguing with the big demon fella now (him and the Molochs may be worth the $25). The orcs I couldn't care less about.
Something tells me we'll obliterate my $713K guess from earlier at this rate (picking up speed very quickly).
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I's indeed also say that I'm starting to get more impressed all the time with this kickstarter. Except for the resin miniatures, that is, I don't really care about those, I still have anough 3 stage heroes lying around :)
Mantic so far has been quite generous with it's kickstarters. I got much more kings of war models than expected, they just added more freebies whe they started to send out the later waves, which was a big surprise. When the Dreadball Xtreme kickstarter slowed down and even seemd to fall back a bit, they threw in more stuff got it back onto track with a prety neat finish in the end, with the option of more stretch goals opening up via the pledge manager.
I wouldn't be surprised if another complete expansion get unlocked after the 48h reminders get send around.
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Hi all, I haven't been around in a while, and haven't had a chance to read through the 17 pages here. But are we looking at Bone's quality soft plastic here? Or harder stuff?
I see they say it is similar to Mars Attacks or Gears of War, but I haven't handled either of those.
Thanks
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Much harder stuff. Same plastic as the Mars Attacks figures if you have seen those yet, otherwise like the Gears of War minis.
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Hi all, I haven't been around in a while, and haven't had a chance to read through the 17 pages here. But are we looking at Bone's quality soft plastic here? Or harder stuff?
I see they say it is similar to Mars Attacks or Gears of War, but I haven't handled either of those.
Thanks
Robh, read man! READ! lol I don't have them either though, so I can't speak to the plastics... :D
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Robh, read man! READ! lol I don't have them either though, so I can't speak to the plastics... :D
Zombicide style.
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Is that at all like Reaper Bones?
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The zombice plastics hold detail much better than the Reaper bones. They are still somewhat bendy and removing mould lines is a pain in the *ss. Fot the rest, the zombicide material is great!
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...apart from the fact the painted miniatures glossed back after a year :(
Keeps me from painting more of them. Why bother?
But it's weird you can find so little information on the plastic. i'm still on the fence on joining for some add-ons, but the lack of good info on the plastic still stops me from backing.
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...apart from the fact the painted miniatures glossed back after a year :(
That's weird... Wonder what makes that happen; could be the plasticisers coming out of the plastic into the paint and varnish layers, whis can be sensitive to that, depending on your choice of paint and varnish.
I had made one mistake with my first few models, which was not washing them and only using a matt varnish in the end. With no good varnish in between the layers, the plasticisers came out and made the matt varnish sticky for more than a month. Interestingly some models were more sticky than others. I'm not sure if the brand of paint uses has influence on that as well or not. I took more care with my 2nd batch and had no problems.
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Robh, read man! READ! lol I don't have them either though, so I can't speak to the plastics... :D
Referee!!
I call foul on that, editing his post to make me look daft :-X
**edit**
Actually I am a bit pissed about that, not about looking daft (used to that) but he didn't even have the courtesy to thank me for the help I tried to give him before including my answer in his original post.
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I've painted up 95% of the Zombicie S1 stuff, never had any problems with them. I painted the zeds with Army Painter wash, worked great, and the characters in a normal style. But I did give everything a good wash first. Still undecided about the material. Cleaning up the trim was as others noted, an absolute nightmare. After that I found the sculpts to have style, while at the same time not bogged down painting tons of little details.
If this is the stuff they use for this game, then I'd be happy to work with it again. I dont think it's the same stuff as the McVey game, Sedition Wars,
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I've pledged for DS - with both expansions, the Abyssal one is filling out nicely.
I think the plastic is the same as the Loka pieces - which is a nice hard plastic - I haven't painted the 1 figure I've got.
I'm not really interested in the resin figures - I'm after good looking gaming pieces not display stuff.
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Referee!!
I call foul on that, editing his post to make me look daft :-X
**edit**
Actually I am a bit pissed about that, not about looking daft (used to that) but he didn't even have the courtesy to thank me for the help I tried to give him before including my answer in his original post.
I'm very sorry, it was not my intent.
What happened was, I made the original post which lacked the info about Mars Attack or Gears of War. After posting, I went back to the Kickstarter page to make sure the info I required wasn't blatantly posted. I saw the line I quoted and thought I could make the edit before anyone responded. Clearly I was wrong but I do promise it was not my intent to make a respected member look foolish. I'm sorry for that. And I appreciate your effort to inform me on the materials.
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AFAIK the material will be the same as the Mars Attacks models as that's the best they've had so far. That's less helpful for you guys who haven't got any of them.
In short, it's an improvement over the previous batches of material used for DB and DZ as Mantic are learning as they go along. This tech is still pretty new and the material family has a bewildering array of possible end qualities. The closest I can think of in stuff that you may have handled is probably the Gears of War plastics. It's slightly bendy (so thin blades etc survive better), holds fine detail well, can be reposed with heat and set with cold, takes paint fine. The amount of flashing is not really dependant on the material, more how it's made and how long the miniatures are cycled for. The Mars Attacks production models I've seen had no flash and a minimal mould line. I didn't try cleaning one myself, but I did ask and the guys that had done so said it was fine. Easier than previous batches.
Hope that helps.
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thanks a lot! Excellent info! Will pledge for some nice addons now :)
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I have now pledged! The big undead hydra tipped me over the edge. (although really it's a gift for my 20th. )
Next update is something big apparently, although many people seem to think it's doors .
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The only expansion I'd consider at this point is the Abyssal, but it's hard to judge with no models. I don't have any demons/fiery hell things for my current dungeon collection. We'll see...maybe I'll add a little bit. I am very happy with the boxed content at the moment, and I'm glad to see my guess has been blasted into oblivion.
PS: I think Mantic should stay on top of the main image (it's what everyone jumps to when viewing a Kickstarter). Currently the $100 pledge includes a good bit more than is pictured...with only a few hours to go I think they should be on it every minute --- keeping the picture updated. Most people won't look through all of the updates to compare and see what they get for $100.
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I see the total is rocketing upwards at the moment. Looks certain the 3D doors will make it in.
As I want the hardback book (I'm a sucker for that sort of thing) Ive decided to pledge for just over the 200 dollars, get both expansions, one of the tile sets-which now includes extra furniture and doors, and a couple of he fancy resin tokens. It's a whole heap of stuff for the money.
As ive said preciously I have faith in Jake to deliver a fun game. Roll on August 2015!
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I see the total is rocketing upwards at the moment. Looks certain the 3D doors will make it in.
As I want the hardback book (I'm a sucker for that sort of thing) Ive decided to pledge for just over the 200 dollars, get both expansions, one of the tile sets-which now includes extra furniture and doors, and a couple of he fancy resin tokens. It's a whole heap of stuff for the money.
As ive said preciously I have faith in Jake to deliver a fun game. Roll on August 2015!
Hardback book is tempting, but since i'm not paying for this i can't really bundle extras in.
I am going to add a hard copy of the choose your own adventure book as an add on tho, can't miss out on that.
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The only expansion I'd consider at this point is the Abyssal, but it's hard to judge with no models. I don't have any demons/fiery hell things for my current dungeon collection. We'll see...maybe I'll add a little bit. I am very happy with the boxed content at the moment, and I'm glad to see my guess has been blasted into oblivion.
PS: I think Mantic should stay on top of the main image (it's what everyone jumps to when viewing a Kickstarter). Currently the $100 pledge includes a good bit more than is pictured...with only a few hours to go I think they should be on it every minute --- keeping the picture updated. Most people won't look through all of the updates to compare and see what they get for $100.
Your right with that. They should have the images prepared in advance so they can be put up nice and quickly.
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Last 10 hours now and up the the $925k stretch goal: add on expansion pack for a Dragon encounter. Don't think there is any doubt it will be reached given the way the thing is growing currently.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/513/488/e2a86f6b1498495e8f06f39b98438074_large.jpg?1409481840)
So for anyone wanting this as the boardgame (ie without any of the optional add ons) the pledge has rounded out to $200:
Core and Advanced game box (including the 3d scenery)
Orc/Goblin expansion (inc new tiles)
Abyssal/Demon expansion (inc new tiles)
Dragon expansion (inc new tiles and 3d scenery)
Black Fortress expansion (new tile set and 3d scenery)
Hardback rulebook (free for a pledge of $200 or more)
That is a pretty sweet haul, considering how light it looked at the beginning it has filled out extremely well.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga-the-dwarf-kings-quest)
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Its at $850k already - after adding £90k+ yesterday.
I'm trying to work out what I want / need. I had already added the Orc and Abyssal expansion, and resin counters/bones, so about $160
The dragon has to be added. I was thinking about the extra tile set (Black Fortress) but then thought that would need the KoW figure set (with Abyssal Dwarfs, Golems and Gargoyles) - these would also give me some new types of 28mm figures. But that's now about $240 which is about £145 which seems a bit much for one game.
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Just over $890k now
I cut back my pledge on the KS to the 2 original expansions to add the main game next month and consider other bits (hardback rulebook beckons) in October.
Assuming the Pledge manager runs like previous Mantic ones you will get a couple of months at least to spread the cost.
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Its running along now, $40k in 3.5 hrs between our earlier posts, and now over $900k so $11k in about 30 mins!!
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Dragon is locked in, 4 hours to go!
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As is the extra campaign book for the new Black Fortress expansion, the KS is running at about $1200 per minute at the moment.
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Yep, gaining lots of speed. I'm tempted by the Dragon expansion, but mainly because it adds more doors and more furniture...and yeah I wouldn't mind a dragon. I may grab that instead of the Abyssal.
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I'll probably wait until the pledge manager for add ons. Want to get the Herey kickstarter stuff too you see.
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I'll probably wait until the pledge manager for add ons. Want to get the Herey kickstarter stuff too you see.
::) ;)
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And a big close at around 1,060,000.
Well done everyone.
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::) ;)
:) Priorities man, priorities lol
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And this is how we finished on the core pledge.
a handful of expansion sets funded and ready to go.
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/fuckyeah_zps41aed938.jpg)
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The thread title is now a little mis-leading...lol, they made it to 1.05 million, not 1.5 lol
Well, another big box to look forward to in a year or whatever their time frame is (I don't even look any more when doing a KS).
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Come on there's nothing different between 1.5 and 1.05, or at least that's what the kids I teach mathematics think... Sigh.
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I did nearly back this in the end, but decided against it as previously explained.
However, I still just wanted to drop into the thread and say that I am very impressed with the final KS cash tally - well done Mantic! 8)
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Confession time - I actually removed my pledge a few days ago, as even though the sheer quantity of stuff was amazing, I wasn't overly thrilled with the quality of the stuff on offer, and had the fear that I'd be left with [another] huge box of toys I'd never use.
BUT: Yesterday I went back in for a smaller pledge, so I can purchase some of those add-ons that really interest me, like the doors, furniture and floor tiles - maybe the dragon actually when the pledge manager comes out. Kind of a lesson to myself in not getting carried away in the moment and just buying what I'll actually use lol
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Nothing wrong with that - the dragon set comes with doors and furniture anyway (one of the reasons I like it). For me, the furniture/doors/character models would have cost me more than $100 (including shipping etc.) so I feel like I made out well. Some of the figures will likely never get used but I'm very comfortable with the stuff I'll be getting. As always if the final product is less than interesting it'll get sold off.
I'm confident I'll get $100 worth out of it. :)
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I will be increasing my pledge to get the base game plus the Abyssal and Orc expansions and maybe the hardback book. But then trading off all the floortiles, counters and doors I end up with.
Problem with the hardback though is that it only replaces the Adventurers Companion so you will still have the rulebook and journal in softback. Not sure that is worth the $30 extra. Had it been 1 book instead of the 3 it would be great.
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The final game looks great, congrats to backers and creators! I decided in the end that after 1000 on Otherworld minis and 500 on Dwarven Forge, I just couldnt justify another game in this genre. The other thing for me is that my mind gets spoiled often by the first images in a genre. No matter how nice they are, GW orks will simply never be the Orcs I grew up with, piggy face and all. So I wanted to invest in a dungeon crawl that was exactly how I pictured it in my mind. The generic fantasy thing is just hard for me to get enthusiastic about. All that said, Mantic did do a great job on this project and it's easy to see that if the final product maintains the level of quality that backers expect, it will be a fantastic success even beyond KS.
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^I hear ya. That's why I won't be investing in the Orc expansion. Also, Mantic sculpts are very hit or miss so this will be tentative. I like the look of the undead revenants, some skeletons etc. The other stuff, we'll see when sculpts show up.
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This was my first big KS - and I'm missing it today - no checking that the total has gone up, which stretch goal we will hit soon, and so on.
Most of my gaming stuff is 10mm, so I'm quite happy to get a good mix of figures and gaming tiles - having gone for all 3 expansions. Big long wait now while it is produced...
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Well Damn. I missed it. I was planning on getting in on this when I was sure I had the funds. Then I lost track of time while working on a terrain project.
Shoot...
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Well Damn. I missed it. I was planning on getting in on this when I was sure I had the funds. Then I lost track of time while working on a terrain project.
Shoot...
Just send them a message on kickstarter, you'll probably get an invite for the pledge manager. I did the same with dreadball when I missed it.
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Nice finish on this one. I only pledged enough for the dungeon furniture and the doors. I just wasn't feeling the minis. But, I'm glad they did well and I am eagerly waiting for my Mars Attack stuff in a month.
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Well Damn. I missed it. I was planning on getting in on this when I was sure I had the funds.
You could write them as suggested.
For the future it's often useful to pledge $1 just to keep track of the project. Practically all KS projects allow you to up your pledge after it closes as long as you were a backer to begin with... and Mantic's been real flexible with the payment schedule for extras too.
Actually, out of 50+ projects I've backed only one said they wouldn't allow upping pledges late...
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...apart from the fact the painted miniatures glossed back after a year :(
Keeps me from painting more of them. Why bother?
This is likely through use! The flat top coat is not at all a protective coat and rubs off quickly with use... Hit'em again!
Thanks
n
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This was a big KS that I didn't actually follow that closely. It was a lot of fun though! Looking forward to it.... in August 2015!!!! That's a whole year! :) It will be a nice surprise though, and I'll need the time to finish off my current projects.
Thanks
n.
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I notice Jake is adding more thoughts on the AI and character experience/levels aspects of the Advanced rules on his Blog:
http://quirkworthy.com/category/dungeon-sagas/ (http://quirkworthy.com/category/dungeon-sagas/)
Seems quite clear in the direction it is heading. Hopefully we will get some revised rules to play around with soon.
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So, is this shipping yet? Seen videos popping up on YouTube and a release date listed as "November 2015" on a number of sites. Anybody?
PS: Shops showing pre-order at discount around $55 for the box set (MSRP: $80).
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Yes it's been shipped to a lot of folks. Mine showed up in Canada almost two weeks ago. The one thing that a lot of people seem really taken with is one of my large dislikes. The 'book' boxes look nifty, but honestly I'd have rather had a plain old box.
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Hmmm...well that doesn't sound good for me then. I think the gimmick book box is neat, but maybe not ideal for constant genuine use.
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Still no sign of mine... :?
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I did indeed receive it quite a while aog (around a month) and together with my wife and Duncan McDane played some of the scenarios over a weekend and we had a blast!
A shame that shipping has not reached everyone and if it does, you might think that the components are not the best you've seen in board games, but they are pretty up to the task and the rules are very nice. Every scenario so far was a challenge for both the GM and the players. I really like the way that the built in timer puts pressure on the heroes. I hope that you'll be just as pleasantly surprised as I was.
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I received my package a couple of weeks back.
It is absolutely bloody awful.
Missing components, bent, mis-moulded and wrongly assembled figures, a rulebook so full of errors it is unusable (literally every page reference in the rules is...."see page xxx"...no numbers just "xxx") , game counters that look as if a 5 year old has made them with play-doh. Loads of promised content is missing and just scrapped by Mantic without notification, other bits changed from printed to pdf only, cheap paper components, character figures provided with no rule cards......
Absolute disaster and Mantic's usual lack of communication and abysmal customer service is making things worse. Wish I had never backed this one and will certainly never buy any game from Mantic again.
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The problem with bent figures is something most resin/restic models have, remember the flak GW got when they got into the finecast thing? Blood Rage also suffers from it, but with Mantic especially the Skellies ( and models with pole weapons ) are bent. I guess that's the price we have to pay for getting "realistic" sized poles instead of tree trunks. Nothing a hot/cold bath can fix, though. No miscasts here, and thank goodness quite clean casts, not too many disturbing mould lines.
The gaming material does the trick, it isn't the most luxurious, but considering the price I'm happy with it. If it were to be CMON level I'm sure the price would be 30% up, let alone if GW did it...
I do regret one thing, and that is I only settled for a basic pledge ( my first kickstarter, you know... ;) ). The game works fine, it's great fun and - as Braxandur says - the timing means you have to make decisions fast or you'll loose anyway. Some nice tactics are involved and I am indeed a happy customer who is considering to buy at least the Dragon add-on and probably more aswell.
Some time ago I got some Mantic Ghouls, discarded them quickly because the lack of quality ( imho ) and after that ignored Mantic until the Dungeon Saga PM went out, pledged - as said - carefully but now they have my fullest attention again and sure will buy more in the future ( Teraton, Plague Teraton, the big Plague Guy e.g. ).
( Jake, after this praise, I'm sure you'll need my adress in order to send me some free figures lol ).
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I got an email from Mantic stating they would "sell" or ship corrected rulebooks or something. I'll go take a look at it and report back. I don't have my stuff yet of course.
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Absolute disaster and Mantic's usual lack of communication and abysmal customer service is making things worse. Wish I had never backed this one and will certainly never buy any game from Mantic again.
I decided the same thing before this kickstarter, so now I'm happy. I'll keep an eye out for discounted boxes on the chance it bombs, but I don't think it will get down to Sedition Wars prices. :)
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All I can say is I'm in for fewer and fewer untested KS games these days. It's like watching a parade of failures....
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I generally just buy for the minis so if the game is crap, I usually don't know unless someone tells me lol.
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I got an email from Mantic stating they would "sell" or ship corrected rulebooks or something.
Yes, their solution to the misprinted books......claiming that the "missing" content was not supposed to be there anyway and that the repeated KS images showing it were an error by a member of staff who has since left Mantic.......yeah right.
They are reprinting the rulebook with the page number errors, transposed text and cut/paste errors fixed and each backer can have one if they ask for it, as long as they pay for the shipping or include it as a special request in their next Mantic webstore order.
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I decided the same thing before this kickstarter, so now I'm happy. I'll keep an eye out for discounted boxes on the chance it bombs, but I don't think it will get down to Sedition Wars prices. :)
Like I stated earlier, the starter box is already on sale at 25-30% off at the normal retailers...it's cheap as dirt here in the states. Now, is it worth that $55? I dunno. Don't have my copy yet.
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Got my copy over Christmas. I'll be selling it off on ebay. It was worth looking into, but the miniatures are a bit crap and that's mostly what I bought in for. Luckily it looks like I recoup my money 100%+ on ebay without gouging.
I'm hugely unimpressed with the quality of the materials in the box/miniatures. I've never been overwhelmed by mantic stuff, but the plastics in normal kits are much better than these. Plenty fine for board games, and while I could probably save a bunch with paint...I'm not interested.
Oh well, no harm no foul. I do think it's totally worth $60 as a board game, but I play-tested it a few times with the beta rules and didn't enjoy it enough.
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Mines sitting in the garage. I'll mess around with the scenery pieces and some of the bigger monsters but other than that, also rather unimpressed. I'll stick to me metal thanks.
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I'm getting the feeling that as a consumer a KS is not such a bargain anymore. The games keep going to retailers for 20-40% off, and more if the game bombs. Paying retail on an unknown and unproven game is just not worth it anymore.....
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http://www.shop.com/Mantic+Games+Dhm81+1+Dwarf+Kings+Hold-1137098507-p+.xhtml?sourceid=298&CAWELAID=120179660000271895&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAiA2IO0BRDXmLndksSB0WgSJADNKqqohCOkwzOGBupawOsn51ggEPlTdZOuBx10QDf5KjQO0BoC_oXw_wcB
$40.00....
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Different game.
http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/dungeon-saga.html
here's the green risiing version of the game
http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/old-board-games/dwarf-kings-hold.html
Dead Rising is OOP
I'm getting the feeling that as a consumer a KS is not such a bargain anymore. The games keep going to retailers for 20-40% off, and more if the game bombs. Paying retail on an unknown and unproven game is just not worth it anymore.....
Right about that!
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Different game.
http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/dungeon-saga.html
here's the green risiing version of the game
http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/old-board-games/dwarf-kings-hold.html
Dead Rising is OOP
Ah, cheers mate! :D
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I agree that a lot of the KS are not technically worth it. However, you pretty much have to balance the freebies/limited edition stuff vs. the discount of the average retailer. Also, depending on the company behind the KS, how genuinely interested in supporting their project are you?
I've only owned a few Mantic boxed sets in the past so they were a bit of an unknown to me, but given the quality of the game contents I won't be backing any further Mantic projects that's for sure.
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I agree that a lot of the KS are not technically worth it. However, you pretty much have to balance the freebies/limited edition stuff vs. the discount of the average retailer. Also, depending on the company behind the KS, how genuinely interested in supporting their project are you?
I've only owned a few Mantic boxed sets in the past so they were a bit of an unknown to me, but given the quality of the game contents I won't be backing any further Mantic projects that's for sure.
My current policy is not to back any game unless I've seen the rules already. I've seen quite a few 'bait and switch' tactics like someone selling $15.00 n scale cars with no rules and calling it a game. Before I dropped my pledge a number of people came to the conclusion that the KS project owner probably wanted to buy some new snazzy 3d printers on our dime. I think he put the project up 3 times before it went to free rules and slightly cheaper lead cars.
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For most of their Kickstarters Mantic have been offering pre-order deals in their web stores almost as good as their Kickstarter rewards. Given that, I'm increasingly uninclined to take the risk on Kickstarters any more.
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Haven't got mine, yet... :-[
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I have parcelled out bits of mine (floorplans, book box, scenery, some figures) but kept the card decks and some of the models.
The plastic figures are passable game tokens but need a lot of effort to bring them to a miniatures game standard. Rulebook and scenarios journal are extremely cheap and flimsy but for me the most disappointing thing is the gameplay. Even with the Companion rules it is very shallow and unfortunately rather tedious. There are some good ideas, but they are not fully realised in the way that early discussions with Jake were suggesting they would be.
The bestiary is laughably small as it only includes figures Mantic make currently and the "create your own" aspect is probably the weakest bit of the advanced rules.
Overall I think the game seems rushed and unfinished, certainly not what I thought I was backing from the promises during the KS, Descent is a much better game in this genre.
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I have to admit I'm a bit shocked at the poor quality of the components. I was hoping to get a few good minis out of it and some good terrain bits for my dungeons...but the terrain bits are pretty half-assed and the figures just don't seem worth it.
Like you I was unimpressed with the quality of the journal/books/rules etc. Very flimsy, poor pictures, even poor printing by comparison to a lot of stuff. As with other Mantic stuff I've seen, not a lot of cohesion in the art are and it is all a bit uninspired. I wasn't planning on playing the game as I'd play-tested the rules a couple of times and realized they were a bit crap. I hate to say it but quality-wise some of these mini-board games are going backwards in terms of quality.
Zombicide is 10x better production value and that's a pretty dedicated board game. I understand Mantic's business design is to essentially undercut GW on cost, but man their stuff is quite uninspired. :-X
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Well I've enjoyed what I've played of mine so far. I like the core rules- I find he combat in particular has just enough depth to be more satisfying than something like Heroquest, but is still streamlined enough to give a nice quick game. I also like the card management aspect in the Overlord role.
I agree some elements aren't as good as I'd hoped. The Adventurers companion should be the strongest part of the game but it tuns out to be the weakest. The minis are exactly what I expected from Mantic game-a real mixed bag. That said they've painted up ok and I'm pretty happy wih them.
Like all Mantic games I've got through Kickstarter, you gwt the impression that a second edition will fix a lot of the slipshod parts of the game and that their is a solid he in there somewhere. For what I wanted, a fairly quick and lightweight Dungeon Crawl, it's pretty much hit the nail.on the head.
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I bought the game from a FLGS before Christmas as my pressie to me (turned out to be my Dad's present to me, and I didn't get myself anything. Hopefully I'll make it up to myself on my birthday o_o)
The minis were a bit of a pain to get ready. It took me two passes with the hot and cold water to get them straightened out, as well as a couple of sessions gluing the other foot to the base (seriously, all but one or two figures only had one foot glued. Why???)
Anyway... got around to playing the first game today and had a good time. The big problem that I hit was that it's missing the Necromancer Overlord Panel - basically the bestiary. There were enough partial photos to let me see how the skeletons behaved, but I've emailed Mantic asking for a replacement.
The game was good fun, and I will definitely be playing more games (once I get the replacement panel)