Rules list for Pike and Shot era games

[Radar]

ReG forum,  like so many rules specific forums, is very very quiet. 'Official' Facebook group is much more active, which is unfortunate for those who dislike all things Meta.

The supplement was released the day after the main rulebook. There's a discount code for those who bought the original rules, and iirc Helion are still running the launch discount (if it is still running, it'll be soon run out).

[Radar]

Back again, and not about ReG this time. As no-one else has, I’ve taken it upon myself to announce that Furioso English Civil War is now available in print and PDF form from Alternative Armies, with bundles of rules and armies for those who want them.

All I'll say about the figures is 'caveat emptor'; on the 18mm size of '15mm', inspired by very dubious source material.

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

Evidently ReG is not ready to be sidelined just yet. I didn’t know about the discount code on Europe’s Ruin - probably my fault for not registering interest, as I did for the rulebook. Buying it is now more urgent than I’d anticipated, though I’m wondering about the appearance of pike and shot troops given that the rules state these should not be based separately, but each TUG - a loose collection of troops roughly corresponding to a brigade - consists of a number of bases, which are removed on incurring wounds. If each base is meant to include both pikemen and musketeers the overall effect will be rather odd, it seems to me, particularly in larger scales, with fewer figures per base. I’m not very far into reading the rules so perhaps I’ve missed something.

Edit: Indeed I had, or rather, I misinterpreted the paragraphs on pike and shot formations in the Overview chapter. On rereading this, I now see that each base does consist of a single troop type, but that “all bases within a unit have the same abilities”. What is not explicitly stated, though I should have inferred it, is that while the figures are based by type (pikemen and arquebusiers / musketeers on their own bases) they are not regarded as being different as it is the overall capabilities of the unit that matter. This is essentially what one would expect but I somehow read more into the explanation than is actually there. Photos in the book of pike and shot formations show the models arranged in the normal fashion, i.e. a central block of pikemen flanked by arquebusiers / musketeers and in the section devoted to formations at the end of the book we find, “Pike and shot TUGs are four bases of arquebusiers / musketeers and two boxes of pike in size. (There is also a large pike and shot formation comprising six and three respectively. In both cases it is stated that the pikes occupy the central file).

It is, incidentally, a little odd to find the word ‘unit’ used in the first text from the Overview  I quoted when the previous paragraph states, “We don’t use the term ‘unit’ going forward as it means many different things to different people”. Clearly old habits are hard to break.

[steders]

I’ve been waiting for those helion rules to come out. It’s an incredibly heavy investment if you don’t like them. Rules £25, dice £10, cards £7. Plus the ECW lists £25. You’ll probably need 2 sets of dice so another £10.
£77 is a lump of cash. I don’t mind spending it if it’s a great system. But it’s a gamble.
Furioso is a set I already have and for £12 for the ECW set seems like a bargain. AA are great to deal with as well.

[SJWi]

Steders, I agree. I'm looking for a set of rules for my prospective 10mm "Eastern Europe" project and at the moment these rules feel just too much of a gamble. Helion's other 17th century-specific set are a contender and at £20 ( or £15 from Mr Bezos) are a currently more attractive proposition.

The price for me isn't the killer, as I guess you could do without the army lists and perform your own research or read-across from other rulesets. Other game systems which involve cards/chits/dice such as those from the Two Fat Lardies can also cost £50+. What is putting me off are the "unknowns"....are they any good??   

[Codsticker]

I see that Alternative Armies is releasing a ECW specific version of their Furioso rules, the original version already on the list: link.

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

I can hardly disagree with the views expressed by steders and SJWi with regard to the heavy investment required by ReG. For better or worse I’m personally now committed, having ordered the cards and dice (the latter of which arrived today - the last two sets from Battlefield Hobbies, which I found shortly before learning of their availability from CCC Games).

Time will tell whether the investment is justified but I don’t feel it is a total shot in the dark, given that the CCC system has established itself through MeG, which has a dedicated fan base, many of whom attend tournaments. In the interest of full disclosure, I say this as someone who owns both the original ring-binder and Compendium editions, but has never played a game. Sadly circumstances have conspired to make me a collector rather than active gamer though I haven’t given up hope that this may change.

[SJWi]

Cholmondely, will you be playing them any time soon? I guess even a report given a read-through would be most welcome.  You sound as if you are approaching them with an open mind rather than being a "disciple"!

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

Sadly it doesn’t seem likely. I can’t play at home as things stand and my experience with clubs hasn’t been encouraging. There’s nothing I’d like more, though, and I’ll certainly read them as I want to get a proper sense of the system. I’ll let you know my thoughts though you’ll have to bear in mind that I have little practical experience of other systems for purposes of comparison.

You’re right that I’m interested in how CCC - or any rules system - handles the realities of battle in the period in question as well as providing an involving and enjoyable experience.

I’m in the East Midlands (UK) and have no personal transport. I’d be open to playing a game in the area subject to resolving the logistical issues. (That said, I have no ready armies!)

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

Here goes with my initial attempt at summarising ReG as part of my own efforts to get to grips with it. This will hopefully serve as a learning tool for myself as well as anyone who is curious and I thought I’d start by going through the types of die used in ReG and all CCC games, including a forthcoming board game called Total War: Rome and a number of projected miniatures rules for other periods. CCC stands for Colour, Command, and Combat. At the heart of the system is the following sequence of colours that govern the difficulty of actions: Black, White, Green, Yellow, Red. I have not yet read far enough into the rules to state how these work in all circumstances but it seems clear that this sequence is integral.

The set of dice that is - at least notionally - required for play comprises two of each colour. The colour used in a given situation depends on the quality and status of the troops. Each die type has a different distribution of symbols with a varying number of blank faces, meaning ‘no effect’. The weakest die (black) has four blank faces. The number of blank faces decreases as one goes up the scale, i.e. white:3, green: 2, yellow: 1, red: 0.

The symbols are, in order of effectiveness, crossed swords indicating a wound or success, the letter S for ‘special’ (a wound plus additional result) and a skull meaning great success, or two wounds in the case of combat.

Just as the number of blank faces decreases as one goes up the colour scale, so the frequency of positive results increases. Thus the only symbols on the black die are one each of wound and special, while the white one has two wounds and one special. The skull makes its first appearance on the green die, along with two wounds and one S. Yellow has five symbols: skull, S, and three wounds, while Red has two skulls, S, and three wounds.

The dice may sometimes be rolled in multiples, always of the same colour, which is why two sets are desirable.

Similarly, the cards or discs are colour-coded to indicate the probability of success of a given manoeuvre. I don’t have my cards as yet so will describe these at a later date.

All of the above will of course be familiar to anyone who has played MeG or perhaps even read about it. I just include it here as a starting point, which I will add to as I progress through the rules, if people feel it is of use. Clearly  there is much more to the system than this but as it is so fundamental I thought it worthwhile setting it out for beginners like myself or the merely curious to familiarise themselves with.

[SJWi]

Cholmondely, thanks for starting to write this. I once watched a few turns of a MeG Wars of the Roses game and it all sounds vaguely familiar. One of the chaps was extolling the virtues of the rules but then he did run a business that sold them!

"Rome Total War" sounds more interesting to me but I think it has been "forthcoming" for several years!

Shame about your gaming situation. I'm lucky that I can easily put up a table at home and have a small group of like-minded mates to game with. One likes fantasy and sci-fi but there's no accounting for taste.   

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

I’ve edited my earlier post (Reply #77) in light of rereading part of the Overview and referring to the section on pike and shot formations that appears in the final section. (TL, DR: ignore what I said about basing).

[steders]

I see that Alternative Armies is releasing a ECW specific version of their Furioso rules, the original version already on the list: link.

Thanks, I’ve ordered them. I haven’t played the original rules but I did like the look of them when I read them.