Brush-on black primer/undercoat

[JollyBob]

I always use GW Chaos Black, mainly because I have it to hand. Recently, I have noticed that it seems to be of a lot thinner consistency than it used to be and consequently rubs off in places if I have to handle the figure while painting.

(Because of this I now always paint the head last, giving me somewhere to rest my thumb... )

So I gave a tube of cheap-ass acrylic artists paint from The Works a shot (again because it was sat near the desk) and found the paint to be much thicker and it adheres to the base metal (or plastic or resin) much easier. It takes a bit to get used to as the consistency changes as it dries, but it has worked pretty well for me so far.

It does smell funny, mind. 

[Mancha]

I use Folk Art, Glass and Tile Medium:

http://www.hancockfabrics.com/Folk-Art-Glass---Tile-Medium---2-Ounces-Craft-Supplies_stcVVproductId47600759VVcatId540006VVviewprod.htm



It is a clear preparation paint for slippery surfaces, such as glass and tile.  Obviously, it's ideal for our purposes.  Although it doesn't come in black, I often mix in dabs of color paint, and you could easily mix in some black.

I mix it with a little bit of water, some paint for tint, and I apply it pretty liberally.  It shrinks as it dries, and provides good "tooth" for overcoats of paint.  The only things to be wary of are (a) it requires a day's worth of drying time (or so I hear), and (b) adding water to the mix tends to produce tiny bubbles, which then pop, causing unpleasant ridges in the undercoat.  There must be a way to avoid this, but I've not really experimented.

Obviously I'm not certain if this is available in the UK.  But if you can find it, I suggest you give it a try.

[Svennn]

I was precluded from this thread at the outset - yes, I spray white - but I have just hand undercaoted a single figure for this evening in white acrylic and pondered some of this thread.

"Acrylic is a paint not a primer" - cannot this argument also be levied at enamels? Primers usually work with some kind of mechanical bond. Wouldn't use a true metal primer on a miniature though as you would probably lose a lot of detail. Just a thought.

Svennn

[keeper]

Thinking about what Svennn has just said - why isn't acrylic paint a primer?

Sure, it isn't its main purpose, but primers for miniatures usually work by shrinking as they dry, creating the mechanical bond to the mini and a layer on which the colours your actually want for the miniature will with bind with.  Maybe is doesn't shrink as much as gesso does, but that doesn't prevent acrylics being effective as a primer, as a good amount of anecdotal evidence would suggest.

Not trying to be confrontational, you understand.  I just want to understand your reasoning, OT?

[rob_the_robgoblin]

Acrylics create a shiny surface which can be annoying to paint on. Sprays give a matt surface and as does gesso.
So for paint-on undercoats, you want gesso.

When I paint canvas, I still undercoat the whole thing white in white paint though.

Really, I guess it depends on which paints you use as undercoat, I'd imagine P3 paints are probably very good.

[Calimero]

When I don’t use spray primer, I simply use a 50/50 mix of GW Chaos Black and Tamiya Flat Black (XF1). The GW part made the mix hold well on the minis and  the Tamiya part give a nice flat surface to paint on.

[Lord_Eddard]

I always use spray for primer, GW, Tamiya or Army Painter. For me it´s faster and more resistant than primer by brush.

[Gundamentalist 5.56]

I'm the same as Orctrader.

Wash in soapy water. Pat down and leave to dry overnight. Then paint with Humbrol Matt Black using a big brush.

The key is to really stir the enamel. For a couple of minutes. Then you get a really matt finish.

[Glitzer]

I use GW Chaos Black or the polystyrene proof acrylic Dupli Color spray when priming black. Both produce very rough surfaces. When there are some small areas uncovered with paint I paint them with Plaka Black by patting them with a bristle-brush, as that colour has a rough surface as well

For Drybrushing those colours I use Plaka, Vallejo Model Colour or BW-Foundation Colours because they have a higher density of pigments.

In my experience drybrushing works better with high density colours and with rough surfaces.

[dbsubashi]

For years I primed all my metal models with a 75/25 mix of GW Smelly Primer and Skull White (the Skull White was to cut down on the bubbles Smelly Primer seemed to leave) Then the next day I would brush on Chaos Black/Black Ink/Polly S Black (for some "tooth") in a 50/25/25 mix. Yep a day to clean, 2 days to prime! But the miniatures took LOTS of abuse. I ran lots of demo games back then in the LA area.

For plastic miniatures I brush on enamel Flat Engine Black from Floquils railroad line. Enamel "bites" into the plastics making for a better primer coat.

I have used gesso for regular art projects, but never thought to use it for minis. Maybe a 75/25 mix with Chaos Black....

[Orctrader]

I was precluded from this thread at the outset - yes, I spray white - but I have just hand undercaoted a single figure for this evening in white acrylic and pondered some of this thread.

"Acrylic is a paint not a primer" - cannot this argument also be levied at enamels? Primers usually work with some kind of mechanical bond. Wouldn't use a true metal primer on a miniature though as you would probably lose a lot of detail. Just a thought.

Svennn

Thinking about what Svennn has just said - why isn't acrylic paint a primer?

Sure, it isn't its main purpose, but primers for miniatures usually work by shrinking as they dry, creating the mechanical bond to the mini and a layer on which the colours your actually want for the miniature will with bind with.  Maybe is doesn't shrink as much as gesso does, but that doesn't prevent acrylics being effective as a primer, as a good amount of anecdotal evidence would suggest.

Not trying to be confrontational, you understand.  I just want to understand your reasoning, OT?

When I have used GW chaos black to prime it rubs off.  As in, rub a part of the figure with my thumb = black thumb; shiny metal miniature.  Same process with Humbrol #33 (Enamel) = clean thumb; figure still black.  Don't know about the science just what I see.  Though I assume it's to do with water-based versus spirit-based 

Interesting to me though that so many others are using only this.  Might have to retest.

Thanks for all the input.

[Verderer]

I have used Vallejo spray primers with varying results. Sometimes the surface gets just too grainy for my liking. On some minis or models this is fine, but in the main I dislike that effect. So I tried yesterday 'priming' some minis by brushing on some Vallejo GC White Primer. It seems a bit different from standard white acrylic paint, for one it sticks pretty well to bare metal even in thin coats, and covers nicely. Oh, and it smells funny too. I wonder what's in it?

[Ray Rivers]

When I have used GW chaos black to prime it rubs off.  As in, rub a part of the figure with my thumb = black thumb; shiny metal miniature.

 

What are you doing "touching" your minis?

I mount them on the top of old paint jars.

[Orctrader]

When I have used GW chaos black to prime it rubs off.  As in, rub a part of the figure with my thumb = black thumb; shiny metal miniature.

 

What are you doing "touching" your minis?

I mount them on the top of old paint jars.

I don't touch them either.  (I mount them on plastic bottle tops from milk cartons.)  Once primed they remain untouched by anything other than a brush until after they are varnished.  But when experimenting with a primer I need to know that it is tough and durable.  Hence the "rubbing test."

Nice man on horse, by the way.  Good painting.   

[Ray Rivers]

Thought naught.

Thus the 

In fact, to be incredibly honest... I "prime" as I go, not the whole figure at one time.  I find it difficult to "see" the figure when it is totally black.  So as I work a section I "prime" (paint) it first and then paint it.  Then I move to another section until the mini is complete.

Laborious I know, but these old eyes need as much help as possible.