Living in Interesting Times

[FramFramson]

It could be that the posts that tipped the balance had been removed just after posting.

First thing we thought of, but neither he nor I could see any of his posts which were missing (I follow his posting, so I saw all he put up).

[Orctrader]

What rewards indeed? Not quite the plastic gnome but...

When Alex handed over the keys to LAF, I said to my chum Mark Copplestone 'I've been given LAF you know? They love your stuff on there'. 'Should I do a welcome to the new ownership figure?' he said. 'Yeah, sounds good, what figure?' replied I.

Here it is, the International Adventurer. This is a Lead Adventure Members only miniature, you'll have to be a member to buy one. It'll be about 2 weeks before it's turned to metal, and before it's available to buy I do a prize draw. We'll randomly pick 10 LAF members (no Mods) and send them a free casting of the International Adventurer.

Look for a proper announcement soon.

Fabtastic.   

(Not really sure what this thread is about and don't have time to read it all, but seeing this was worth the cursory browse.)

[FramFramson]

I’m pretty regular here but I haven’t noticed a trend towards adversarial relations with members (plural). How many members have contacted you on this matter? How many have stated that they share this view?  I’m not stirring, I just don’t see such a trend and would like to understand the basis of your claim.

Ps: I’ve purposely asked here rather than by PM, as I believe such ‘dirty washing’ should see the light of day.

I've had conversations with a fair few members in recent days and more in the past. I'm not going to go around posting names without consent, but at least a couple have posted in this thread.

I would call it a trend for a couple reasons. The first being that I feel like I'm seeing more locked or deleted threads these days and the mods sounding more curt and tired about any disruptions (subjective, to be fair), the second being that the others who share my concerns have felt that way as well (especially those who are refugees from other failed forums), and the third being that over time the rules about what is allowed seem to have become stricter, such as the closing of the one quarantined off-topic forum we were allowed (which has simply resulted in off-topic discussions being crammed edgeways into other threads now and then) because it was simpler to just disallow such talk entirely rather than moderate it.

I think that if you're fortunate to have never run afoul of a mod, or been a member of a once-great forum which slowly turned to shit, then the signs of the possibility that the same can happen here are not something which really stand out except in retrospect.

Also, threads being deleted masks any trends as many members may never see the complaints made by others and I feel the frequency of locking and deletion has grown.

[Lowtardog]

I would disagree entirely Fram, the individual in question was aggressive and I would bet a lot of threads he participated in (not all I might add) to a very direct (I would say rude, crude and point of view) to the point I would not bother looking at the thread.

I could bite if he was trolling but decide whilst on LAF that is not what this forum is about nor has it been since I have been on here since 2006. I have been an active Frother though haven't been on since the forum went through a change a couple of years back and can assure you he would have had a rather different response on their from other members.

If 3 people banned in all the years the forum has been in existence then I don`t see it. I can understand if you are mates with him calling unfair but making such a song and dance smacks a little of overkill to be honest

[Cubs]

(Not really sure what this thread is about and don't have time to read it all, but seeing this was worth the cursory browse.)

It's basically people saying how great the stuff I'm selling in the bazaar is.

[Mr.J]

I would suggest the higher number of moderator interventions, which is still low compared to the number of posts, is due to the rising numbers of people joining the forum in recent years, not as a result of a moderator coup as seems to be being suggested.

If 3 people banned in all the years the forum has been in existence then I don`t see it. I can understand if you are mates with him calling unfair but making such a song and dance smacks a little of overkill to be honest

I agree with this. There are you and maybe a handful of other members complaining vocally, I imagine most others, myself included, would just like to proceed drama free.

[nic-e]

The fact that the banning of a member can cause such discussion is surely a show of how well moderated and lenient things have been?

This is the third ban in the forums history, and as such it is noteworthy, but the very fact that this is so rare is sign enough to me that the forum is fine.Imagine if this was DakkaDakka? I'm almost certain I could make an account and get banned in the space of an hour or so for something that might simply be given a polite warning here, Or for nothing in particular! and if someone put up a post asking why I'd been banned you can bet your ass that they'd be staring down the barrel of the ban cannon soon.

[Arlequín]

The fact that the banning of a member can cause such discussion is surely a show of how well moderated and lenient things have been?

I think it says far more about the membership and the forum culture they have created. Mods can't do what they do without the general consent of the membership, even if at times individual members may not agree with what's happened as a result of moderation. Even mods voice their disagreement with each other here when they feel something is off, trust me on that.

Mods can try to model an ideal, but it's down to the members as to whether they choose to subscribe to it. When there is a dissonance, that's when you get rows, frequent bans and members leaving in droves. I can recall a hissy fit or two being thrown here in the past, but even the primadonnas amongst us usually come back and it's not remarked on.

TL/DNR - You get the mod team you deserve. The lack of bans and heavy moderation signifies a membership that generally chooses to treat others in the same fashion they expect to be treated. Moderation happens only when they don't.

[Inkpaduta]

Can we please stop this now! I got so sick of this crap over on another wargame site that I left.
Please, can just stick to wargaming? If you want to save the world, find justice for all or just want
to have more controversy over nothing then go somewhere else.

[Ragsta]

Can we please stop this now! I got so sick of this crap over on another wargame site that I left.
Please, can just stick to wargaming? If you want to save the world, find justice for all or just want
to have more controversy over nothing then go somewhere else.

This. I like this forum a lot. It’s my go to place albeit I haven’t been here long. I appreciate the work the mods do and I enjoy LAF. I can understand that long term members may be upset about what they perceive to have happened but I saw certain posts and I’n sorry to say I’m not surprised at the result.

I’m going to check out Cub’s fine wares now. Good vibes and happy HOBBY filled posts to you all!

[grant]

I painted stuff today. http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=106573.msg1345779#msg1345779
I read some posts.
I talked about stuff, therefore:

I’m a good member! 

[FionaWhite]

Today I think I helped someone consider a ruleset, and I only swore once while playing Dark Souls 2...
But then, I didn't paint anything today so I think I'm a bad member. 

[Elbows]

Gotta say I'm with Ink on this one.

[FramFramson]

Before getting hung up on me personally, as if this is all something created entirely in my own head, bear in mind that I did not start the thread and the member who did has also received a great many PMs. Nor were we the only two creating rapidly-deleted threads yesterday. It's easy to deny a problem exists if complaints are simply disappeared (how many of us mocked the closing of the GW forums for this very reason?). So unless you firmly think I'm out and out lying or delusional, you might want to consider the possibility that others besides myself do not agree with you.

Moreover, in just one page, I've been told that my opinions are "controversy over nothing", simply an attempt to start trouble or drag "social justice activism" into our pedestrian wargames forum (ha!), and that the moderation is light as a feather (I wouldn't say it's heavy, but it's definitely not as light as some people seem to think and after eight years, I certainly remember when it was more relaxed), along with a few me-toos in the bargain. I don't mind taking it on the chin, but none of us are interested in a pointless argument with those who will simply circle the wagons around and deny that has or will ever change, for better or worse (in the interests of keeping the peace, I'll resist the urge to repeat some of the more... colourful terms used to describe such ardent defenders of the status quo).

So I can hardly blame people who choose to remain silent rather than voicing their concerns. They're more likely to simply drift away as they feel unwelcome or out of place. Funny enough, as another thread recently pointed out, posting on LAF HAS declined over the past year. I don't believe this can all be laid at the feet of Facebook but I suppose there are many ways the data could be interpreted.

With respect, I post my concerns because I wish LAF to remain a great place. If I thought it was a lost cause I would simply let it drop off naturally myself (and indeed I have participated less over the past few months), rather than wasting energy in discussing something with no possibility for improvement.

[Blackwolf]

Sorry chaps,my post is irrelevant.