A Tilean Campaign

[SotF]

Help me out, Swiftnick. It is all so alien to me, and I think many folk oversimplify what actually has to be done. I tried a white undercoat with some and the paint just peeled off.

So, is this the actual sequence

Primer coat (brushed?)
white undercoat
block colours
dip
Varnish
Antishine

Which of these is acually unnecessary? Perhaps one of them, done well with the right product, makes another redundant?

And, what is 'Dip'? What named products consitute dip?

I lterally have no clue.

Like tonight I was 'priming' some ghosts (never had to prime enamels, just black undercpoat and away). The white primer doesn't go on, and bubbles bizarre. The black is better but I want a lighter base to experiment on. So I mixed my black and white primer and made a grey primer! Which, when dry, I intend to undercoat grey over.

I have some GW 'effect' paint bllue to wash over it, but I might no do so 'cos it was basically a rubbish result last time and I painted over it all!

So a really simple description of the sequence of products would be ace!

For priming issues, you need to wait for it to fully dry most of the time or you can create issues, you also have to deal with moisture/temperature if you're using a spray primer. Normally, the spray primers tend to be the best option if you can.

If you still have trouble with it, you might look into priming with gesso, it works rather well there.

The dip is a method that involves a large container of what is basically a wash, you dunk the mini in and pull it out before shaking off as much of it as you can. It's mainly for certain types of speed painting, it's also often used for making certain pre-painted minis look a bit better by adding the dip and then varnishing the mini with a dullcoat as most dips end up extremely glossy.

[Padrissimus]

The white primer I bought literally does not actually cover it just smears and streaks. Vallejo. I even checked reviews before I bought and they said it was ok. The black one from the same company seems to work ok.

So specifically what brand of brushed on white primer actually works and makes a figure neatly and uniformly white?

As for the dip, again it is specifics I am craving. Can someone name a brand of dip that works well?

The brush on matte varnish I bought is also a bit rubbish as it dries to a satin sheen. Does anyone know of a brush on matte varnish that works well?

I may have been painting for 35 years but with enamels I never used primer and I never used varnish. I did try varnish back in the mid 1980s but stopped using it when it turned an entire regiment of 40 goblins white!

[amunptah]

I use a brush on grey primer, and manually pop any bubbles if they appear with my brush. I found spray primer would always bubble, especially in damp England!

Then I block colour, with washes of various colours afterwards if I have them. For example I use a flesh wash or green wash on top of the matching colours.

Areas I haven’t washed I use brush on “dip.” The Army Painter produce these, and I think there are equivalents from Vallejo and GW (eg contrast paints, but I get poor results if I don’t block colour before). These are basically another wash that you brush straight on.

Strong Tone always gets recommended, but I prefer to use Soft Tone as the brown is less pronounced and stops the miniatures looking too muddy. The dip basically runs across the miniature and likes to sit in the recesses more than it does the flatter surfaces, so it will create shadow and highlights. I’ve found it generally behaves very well but a little encouragement with the brush makes sure it gets to the right area and doesn’t pool too much. Also it looks a little darker than you expect until it dries, so don’t panic!

It gets called dip as Army Painter sell large tins of it. People literally dunk miniatures into the tins and flick off the excess! Their tutorial guide to painting is here: https://admin.thearmypainter.com/files/downloads/guides/TheWargamer_ArmyPaintingGuide_byTheArmyPainter_2019.pdf

I haven’t used Matt varnish or anti shine but should do as I'm getting chips. Will invest in some soon. Spray and brush on variants exist of course.

[swiftnick]

Hello there a quick post but will come back when have taken some pictures.
I simply
1. Wash figures in warm soapy water, rinse and dry.
2. Undercoat/prime I use a spray can off Plastikote matt paint. The colour I use is a creamy off white.
Allow to dry for at least a day.
3. Block colour with Acrylics. The new contrast paints are incredible and have really sped up my painting.
Allow to dry for at least a day.
4. Apply Dip. I use the coat d arms product. Less smelly and dries quicker than army painter. Apply with a brush, brushing from top to bottom. This is your dip and combined first coat of varnish.
5. When dry apply matt varnish. I use Windsor and newton Acrylic varnish.

I have recently been knocking out about 50 figures a week using these methods no problems

[Padrissimus]

Thank you Amunptah, Swiftnick and SotF, plus Gibby who messaged me instead for entirely technical reasons! I now have loads to go on.

Re Swift Nicks

1. Wash figures in warm soapy water, rinse and dry.
Oops! I have rarely done this!

2. Undercoat/prime I use a spray can off Plastikote matt paint. The colour I use is a creamy off white.
Allow to dry for at least a day.
I will look into sprays - I have only ever used for scenery before, as I did use acrylics on scenery even when I was exclusively using enamels for figures. Amunptah mentioned brush on grey if the spray isn't helped by the climate! SotF mentioned gesso which I have used often for scenery and other projects, never figures. Of the two I have used, one was way too thick and ironically the other perhaps too thin. Again, I am looking forward to experimenting.

3. Block colour with Acrylics. The new contrast paints are incredible and have really sped up my painting.
Allow to dry for at least a day.
I have no contrast paints, only 'base' but if contrast are better I will get some.

4. Apply Dip. I use the coat d arms product. Less smelly and dries quicker than army painter. Apply with a brush, brushing from top to bottom. This is your dip and combined first coat of varnish.
Coat d'Arms, check! I will try to source some. Gibby mentioned Army Painter Dark Tone dip, another which I was entirely ignorant of. Amunptah mentioned 'strong' and 'soft' tone which might be the same thing, I will research. Gibby did say I will have to get out my white spirit again (which is why I am abandoning enamels) but I will be careful with it from now on, and it won't be all the time! I really have been in my own little familiar world of enamels for 35 years!!!!!!

5. When dry apply matt varnish. I use Windsor and newton Acrylic varnish.
Cool, another brand I knew nothing of! I will research how to obtain.

I will get some 'dip' ASAP, and a fancy new contrast paint for the boney bits, and try it on my ghosts. Colour me excited! While I'll be colouring my models like never before!

[Padrissimus]

'The Army Painter Dark Tone Quick Shade' yes? At more the £30 I really don't want to buy the wrong thing!

(Edit) Arrgh! There IS a 'Strong' tone too? Which should I get.

Note: I do want to get as close as possible to my enamel 'cartoon' style!

[has.been]

Take a look at the various wood varnishes out there.
I use Dark Oak as  Dark Shade,
        Light Oak as  Light Shade,
        Mahogany as... well anything that needs a reddish brown tinge.
MUCH cheaper.
Some companies do small tester pots, though they are getting
harder to find.

[amunptah]

Yep, washing miniatures is a must!

[swiftnick]

This is the undercoat/primer I use




The dip I use.
I honestly wouldn't use army painter dip. It is strong smelling, takes a while to dry. Is expensive and only comes in larger tins. Which invariably dry up before they are used.



The matt varnish I use.
Some people think it is a bit soft. So maybe not so god if you are handling the figures a lot. I think it gives a nice finish and dries quickly.

[Padrissimus]

Excellent information.

I'm so keen to try I have already ordered some army painter dip earlier today, so I will try that and see what happens. The Primer I will definitely look into and the Varnish sounds good as I don't handle that much, really, and take care with the figures anyway!

BTW, having just googled the Windsor and Newton Galleria Matt Varnish, everyone seems to be talking about airbrushing. Does it work as well with brushes too?

[swiftnick]

I only ever apply it with a brush.

[Padrissimus]

I only ever apply it with a brush.

Excellent! I am reassured

[Padrissimus]

WIP Cairn Wraiths

So, like I said I would, and after more than a year trying to replicate my 35 years enamel painting style in acrylics, I am gonna try a more 'modern' method. On advice, I got myself some Army Painter Quickshade Dark Tone and have just finished the basic block painting of 10 Cairn Wraiths. I have yet to decide what varnish, but I think I will get the Windsor and Newton Galeria to try first.

BTW, I say 'Cairn Wraiths', but they are some AoS figures (Night Haunt or something) I obtained at a bargain price with the crazy bases hacked up so that they now fit on 20mm bases, and even rank up.

WIP - here they are ready for the dip! (My first ever attempt at such!)



I may see if I can apply the dip everywhere but NOT on the light blue part, as even I can see it probably won't work well there. I tested on the light blue and the dark grey. It seems of on the latter! I am hoping it will make the skulls and hands and gravestones pop! I will just dry brush the light blue with an almost white blue, I think. Unless the dip stray's onto it. But hey, it's my first attempt!

I will try it at the weekend. Pray for me to unholy Nagash - may his curse fall upon all the living.

PS: A unit of 10 if these (rare choice, VC) are expensive, I know. But all the regular VC field armies in the campaign have been beat and now the living armies face marching into the spooky heartlands to finish the job off. I want that region to be tough, filled with ghosts and monsters and such as these!

[Bearwoodman]

Good luck Padrissimus! Despite using acrylic paints myself (although I have never used the Army Painter dip) for some reason following your venture into acrylic painting is making me nervous. I do hope you are pleased with the results!

[amunptah]

Me too! To see someone who is so skilled taking their first steps again is nerve wracking. Yes, the dip can be a challenge with some colours and ends up looking too muddy. But I’ve had good results washing it over bone colours and it really pops!