Kings of War in 1/72 (scratch-built, ahem, Archfiend of the Abyss ...)

[DivisMal]

I’m amazed again by the speed with which you crank out nice looking units. However, I completely stunned about your basing concept. That’s something I really do struggle with…mostly ending up using single bases…

I also played KoW in its first free edition and found it really to many dice…and lacking some of the funnier elements of Warhammer. Your posts make me think that I may have misjudged the system…I won’t ever forgive them the absolutely silly unit names…

[Hobgoblin]

The troll in the middle is great, I've not seen that mini before.

He's an old Asgard troll, by Nick Bibby, I think. He looks to me very like a 'dry run' for the more celebrated Asgard half-troll chieftain.

I’m amazed again by the speed with which you crank out nice looking units. However, I completely stunned about your basing concept. That’s something I really do struggle with…mostly ending up using single bases…

Thanks! Yes, I'm starting to formulate a set of principles for basing. If the miniatures are old and metal, they get individually based (unless I have lots and lots of them: some Prince August orcs may be going on multibases, because I have dozens of them). If they're new and plastic, they go on multibases (perhaps with one or two individually based).

I also played KoW in its first free edition and found it really to many dice…and lacking some of the funnier elements of Warhammer. Your posts make me think that I may have misjudged the system…I won’t ever forgive them the absolutely silly unit names…

I was very sceptical at first, and I entirely agree on the unit names - a problem somewhat amplified by the fact that I have the background-free version of the rulebook so have to try to figure out what some of the units are supposed to be! But I've been won over by the way the game plays. I'm enjoying it quite as much as HOTT (which is high praise from me, as I love that game). I think it's just very well designed: the games are smooth and fast, with lots of decision-making. We played our first game with a proper scenario recently, and it was excellent.

One thing I've found is that the somewhat abstract rules allow for some quite realistic-feeling choices: for example, having skirmishers screen your main infantry troops as you advance. The skirmishers will probably get 'destroyed', but will thus open up the enemy to a charge by the heavier infantry - so if you accept that the 'destruction' of the unit is its 'job done' retreat/dispersal, you get quite a nice tactical feel.

I hear you on the buckets of dice - but I think that's balanced by the extra granularity you get in results - as in the additional staying power that the bigger units get. And the snake-eyes/boxcars results add a nice element of uncertainty to even the best-laid plans.

Another thing I really like is the magic system. I used to loathe magic in Warhammer: it just seemed to wreck the game. My friends and I banned any magicians above the first level in our teenage games. But the smooth integration of magic into the shooting phase and the nature of the spells makes KoW an entirely different experience.

[DivisMal]

These are good points. Magic was really so flawed, that my best Warhammer games were those where we translated the units into Warhammer Historical and skipped Magic (or used the various priests, skadi etc. Rules).

I guess I need to try it again…big question now: wait for 3rd edition or buy 2nd edition? I definitely want a version without that abominable background!

[Hobgoblin]

Ah - now, the current edition is 3rd edition; there's a new book coming out soon that is 3rd edition + all the supplements/updates. It's going to be completely background-free, I gather - with the background available free online.

[DivisMal]

Ah - now, the current edition is 3rd edition; there's a new book coming out soon that is 3rd edition + all the supplements/updates. It's going to be completely background-free, I gather - with the background available free online.

Oops! Okay, 3rd edition then, it is!

Do you use the profiles for the suggested armies or as an abstract „value“ for whatever models you have?
I remember vaguely that one of the reasons for my dislike of KoW was that in 1st edition, it lacked suitable lists for my main armies: Chaos and Empire (Renaissance men)

[Hobgoblin]

I do a bit of both - but with the supplements, there are army lists for just about everything (including a very flexible 'Kingdoms of Men' list that would fit the Empire nicely.

For the Chaos army, you've got the Varangur, and there's the Herd for beastmen. But there are also the Nightstalker and Abyssal armies (various sorts of demons), and you can use allies from other lists too.

I've been mainly playing my Nick Lund orcs as Varangur (the larger orcs are suitably imposing in 1/72 scale, and the small ones are the size of beefy men in 1/72, so suitable as the thug types).

[DivisMal]

Ph those Nick Lind orcs! I envy you. They were my start into wargaming together with the Fantasy Warriors boxed set. A looong time ago. I consider them pretty well aged!

[Hobgoblin]

Yes, the Fantasy Warriors stuff has aged just fine! I'm currently converting some of the EM4/FW plastic orcs (Copplestone masquerading as Lund) to make a unit of orc archers for KoW - adding some variety to the monopose archers by giving some of the other two poses bows.

One other thing I'd say in favour of KoW is that its army lists encourage all sorts of creative thinking/rifling in the lead pile to get various units on the table. I've just based up some outsized Wizkids gnolls to serve as 'guardian brutes' or 'lycans' in the Herd army ...

[DivisMal]

I had those Copplestone masking as Lund orcs, too! My best friend with whom I shared the set, took the Dwarfs, so orcs it was for me before I went to Wood Elves (never again done as cool as in the Celt-inspired style of Marc Copplestone) and then found my true love in the FW Barbarians. - Sadly the FW rules neber received the update and streamlining needed. I still consider some elements of the rules pretty original and good (the morale resulted in „realistic“ results, the orders were good and the idea to have the undead army work completely different was ace!)

Going back to KoW: I see your points…what does interest me a lot is the construction of multi-bases. Maybe, I’ll have to reward myself soon when my current (real-life) project ends.

[Hobgoblin]

I had those Copplestone masking as Lund orcs, too! My best friend with whom I shared the set, took the Dwarfs, so orcs it was for me before I went to Wood Elves (never again done as cool as in the Celt-inspired style of Marc Copplestone) and then found my true love in the FW Barbarians. - Sadly the FW rules neber received the update and streamlining needed. I still consider some elements of the rules pretty original and good (the morale resulted in „realistic“ results, the orders were good and the idea to have the undead army work completely different was ace!)

I'd love to give the game a go at some point. I've skimmed the rules a few times but have never managed to get it onto the table.

Going back to KoW: I see your points…what does interest me a lot is the construction of multi-bases. Maybe, I’ll have to reward myself soon when my current (real-life) project ends.

Yes, the multi-base thing is a lot of fun. The game also has scope for a lot of great big monsters - like this familiar face, which my son has just completed using his usual tinfoil-and-Fimo approach. We're going to use this guy as an 'Archfiend of the Abyss', I think, but he could be smuggled into any of the nastier KoW armies as whatever flying titan features in the pertinent list:

[DivisMal]

Bravo! Bravo! That is an exceptional archfiend. My compliments to Hobgoblin jr.!

Why do people buy 3D printers…all we need is fimo and tinfoil. I’m seriously impressed!

[Hobgoblin]

Many thanks! And Merry Christmas!

[swiftnick]

That really is incredible modelling right there @

[102-year-old-man]

beautiful!   

[Barbarus]

Yes, the multi-base thing is a lot of fun. The game also has scope for a lot of great big monsters - like this familiar face, which my son has just completed using his usual tinfoil-and-Fimo approach. We're going to use this guy as an 'Archfiend of the Abyss', I think, but he could be smuggled into any of the nastier KoW armies as whatever flying titan features in the pertinent list:

Watched the video and it's awesome!
How old is your son?
He sounds young, but the script he's reading sounds like a cheeky middle-aged man. Did you help him with the video or did you pass on some kind of sarcasm gene?