Toying with an idea, input wanted…. Underwater Frostgrave scenarios?

[Grumpy Gnome]

So here is the thing. When Mrs. GG and I were trying to decide what genres to focus on  for our analog tabletop gaming a couple of years ago (when I gave up PC gaming), one of the things my wife liked were the Games Workshop Idoneth Deepkin… but mostly because she thought they were underwater minis. She was keen to play an underwater game. I explained the background of the the Idoneth and Age of Sigmar. It put her off.

But she was still very keen to do some sort of underwater table top gaming. We looked around a bit but no game really caught us.

I kind of liked the idea of Kharadron dwarves being underwater minis, seems an easy leap with the aesthetics but still… not convinced.

She really likes all the underwater minis in Reaper Bones V but since we have no game for them we did not add them to our pledge since we do not have the resources for “display only” minis.

Then I saw this old blog post…

http://therenaissancetroll.blogspot.com/2020/06/underwater-adventuring-rules.html#comment-form

And I thought about the Avery scenario in Frostgrave…..

What if there was a giant magical aquarium?

Or maybe a portal to the Ghost Archipelago?

Seems like these ideas have potential but then there is the question of balancing the monster stats.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Chief Lackey Rich]

Not to derail this, but did you look at Deep Wars from Antimatter Games when you were hunting for rules?  Uses a variant of Ganesha's "Song of Things & Other Things" game engine, has a pretty good approach for 3D combat and movement, offers a fair range of exotic underwater figs (which are now being produced and sold through Dark Sword Minis, but that's another story).  If you didn't see it already, it's worth a look.

Sticking to the Frostgrave engine, I like the giant aquarium idea, although you could take a page from an old TTRPG campaign I played in where the evil wizard big bad had a normal-sized aquarium but stocked it with specimens he'd miniaturized, including the PCs.  Maybe a scenario where the crews are at risk of being suddenly shrunken and sunken by a malfunctioning aquarium and victims have to deal with the aquatic monsters inside (no doubt guarding some sweet loot) until someone manages to crack the tank (from inside or out) and let everything come spilling out as they grow to full size.  Do a separate table for the lab and for the inside of the aquarium itself.

You could also have some fun with a "Snit's Revenge" style game (it's an old TSR boardgame if that's Greek to you) where the table is actually the inside of a gigantic water elemental or sea monster or somesuch that's swallowed/engulfed the crews and they're trying to loot the thing's innards as they search for a way out or a vital organ to kill the beastie.

[Grumpy Gnome]

We did look at Deep Wars… the artwork and minis anyway, not the rules so much. Mrs. GG was not a fan. I liked a couple but not enough to push for it. Looking back at it. Ow, I do not recall seeing the Shadow Sea part… lots of minis in there appeal to me but they are land based and a bit pricey. Great for Ghost Archipelago (and that part our Tarnished Splendor project…. The Silver Bayonet is likely going to play a role in our Tarnished Splendor plans).

[Chief Lackey Rich]

Yeah, they've always been a bit steep for my tastes as well, but there are some spiffy figs in the two ranges.  Lot of nice Bob Olley sculpts.  Some of their resin terrain's pretty cool too, and not quite as costly - the fungus stuff, anyway.

[Grumpy Gnome]

Fungi appeal to my Gnomish roots.

[jetengine]

Yeah, they've always been a bit steep for my tastes as well, but there are some spiffy figs in the two ranges.  Lot of nice Bob Olley sculpts.  Some of their resin terrain's pretty cool too, and not quite as costly - the fungus stuff, anyway.

Same, love the idea and setting (Renaissance, magitech, deep sea skirmish? Friggen awesome!) but its just too expensive.

Regarding frostgrave though. Maybe theres some awesome loot at the bottom of a frozen lake. Both wizards use magic to ensure their gang dont freeze and can breathe...but this limits the wizards abilities. Only one spell per turn and no enhancing? Everyone has the leap spell active (swimming?)

[Chief Lackey Rich]

Fungi appeal to my Gnomish roots.

Who doesn't love a good fungus?

You've seen the Mortal Arrow stuff, right?  They ran a whole kickstarter for fungal monsters.  D&D inspired but some figs that'd be great elsewhere.

https://www.mortalarrow.com/bazaar/mortal-arrow-miniatures/warren-of-vile-fungi/

[Grumpy Gnome]

Who doesn't love a good fungus?

You've seen the Mortal Arrow stuff, right?  They ran a whole kickstarter for fungal monsters.  D&D inspired but some figs that'd be great elsewhere.

https://www.mortalarrow.com/bazaar/mortal-arrow-miniatures/warren-of-vile-fungi/

I am aware of their pieces. We missed their last KS due to cash flow issues.

[fastolfrus]

Same, love the idea and setting (Renaissance, magitech, deep sea skirmish? Friggen awesome!) but its just too expensive.

Regarding frostgrave though. Maybe theres some awesome loot at the bottom of a frozen lake. Both wizards use magic to ensure their gang dont freeze and can breathe...but this limits the wizards abilities. Only one spell per turn and no enhancing? Everyone has the leap spell active (swimming?)

Or just give your wizard a couple of extra spell choices from "Bedknobs & broomsticks"?

Some spells (and some weapons e.g. bows) wouldn't work underwater, but certainly one worth looking at.

[Grumpy Gnome]

While undead and constructs can avoid the breathing issue, there would have to be a work around for everyone else.

Not sure how I feel about how most weapons would be ineffective due to the nature of water resistance.

[Chief Lackey Rich]

While undead and constructs can avoid the breathing issue, there would have to be a work around for everyone else.

Hmmm.  How's about a table with a sizable body of deep water that contains at the central loot and two of the others resting on the bottom at least 6" below the surface, with the other two loot on dry land and a 1" "shelf" of shallow water at the perimeter of the deep water.  Put four(?) mystic fountains evenly around the edge of the water, and any model can use a move (or regular) action to drink from a fountain when in contact, gaining Aquatic (not Amphibious, they're very different) for its next five(?) activations, at which point it wears off till you drink again.  Moving underwater with Aquatic (or just swimming) counts vertical distances as well as horizontal, loot slows you to half as usual (a quarter if you aren't Aquatic), and no bows/xbows/guns work for the rest of the game once you've gotten wet. 

Add deep water bottom terrain to suit your tastes.  If you want to add some water critters to a custom random monster chart have some shallow water extend to the neutral edges of the table (an underground river with a much deeper pool in it, no doubt).  Don't run it into the crew deployment zones, you don't want to make it easy to swim treasure off the board, that "Aquatic for a while" thing is supposed to complicate matters.   

Crews will be forced to decide how many troops they're going to use to as fishmen versus how many to keep on dry land to contend for the other loot, as well as having to juggle the limited water breathing time for figures who've gone in the drink.  If that isn't funky enough, maybe put the central objective atop a "shallow water" pillar in the center of the pool, so swimmers have to make more choices about diving for the other sunken loot or staying near the surface to reach the center fastest while risking getting shot from shore in that shallow water.

I'd mark swimmer "elevation" with d6's, and use lengths of string to determine actual distances covered as they move around on the diagonals.  If you want to splurge grabbing some cheap plastic glasses in different sizes for "swimming bases" can work, although they can be a bit wobbly with metal figs.       

Not sure how I feel about how most weapons would be ineffective due to the nature of water resistance.

I'd just handwave it and say any model with an inappropriate weapon (hammers, maces) has rearmed itself with something pointier for this battle.  If you want to be meaner about it, make everyone use daggers while fighting in the water.  Binge watching Sea Hunt episodes has reassured me that knives work just dandy underwater.

[Grumpy Gnome]

Wow! You really have a knack for this sort of thing Rich. That sounds devilishly clever!

[Chief Lackey Rich]

Wow! You really have a knack for this sort of thing Rich. That sounds devilishly clever!

Ideas are easy, it's just riffing on a solid rule system.  Putting in the work to throw together terrain and do proper playtesting and then produce a nice professional looking document - I'll leave that to McCullough.  Unless maybe he wants to pay for developer work. 

[BZ]

The author of Frostgrave, Joe McCullough wrote some "unofficial" rules for magical undewater combat in Ghost Archipelago:
http://therenaissancetroll.blogspot.com/2020/06/underwater-adventuring-rules.html?m=1

[Grumpy Gnome]

The author of Frostgrave, Joe McCullough wrote some "unofficial" rules for magical undewater combat in Ghost Archipelago:
http://therenaissancetroll.blogspot.com/2020/06/underwater-adventuring-rules.html?m=1

I did link that in my original post mate, it is what inspired the post, but thanks for the thought.