The germ of a project: unconventional Middle-earth armies (a switch to 15mm!)

[jon_1066]

I think that the interesting thing about the art in Hobgoblin's first post is that the artists all seem to be from outside the Anglosphere. They were likely working from Tolkien's texts 'fresh' and without some/all of the cultural assumptions that English readers in the mid-20th century would have brought to the books, and as a result they produced some very unique interpretations of the material. It would be interesting to know whether the illustrators were working from the original English or translations.

Trying to bring fresh eyes to Tolkien is why I like Hobgoblin's rule 2 of using just the text of LotR or the Hobbit alone as a basis for the project, as it opens the door for some creative and fun stuff. Sure it arguably disregards what Tolkien 'meant' in some letter to his publisher or draft of the Silmarillion, but who cares? It's a New Criticism approach to building HotT armies.

I have to admit I'm not a fan of the 1:1 mapping of historical cultures onto Middle Earth nations. It seems kinds of limiting, and it more often than not leads to a "good guys: white, bad guys: non-white" formulation. Also, it usually seems like a reaction to the Peter Jackson films and a desire for a more 'accurate' or 'authentic' depiction of Middle Earth (which is fair!) but often is no more reflective of what Tolkien wrote, even if using historical figures gives it a veneer of being more realistic somehow.

If you don't use an existing historical or fantasy range for a number of your factions you are left kit bashing everything - and even then the bits still have to come from somewhere (I assume Hobgoblin isn't going to sculpt the entire lot himself).  If you raid the historical armies for factions you save a lot of time.

Nothing to say any of the factions have to be from Europe or the Middle Ages.  I think the Byzantines look pretty cool and fit Gondor pretty well (old empire crumbling into ruin, lots of chain mail, etc).  No reason you couldn't dial back the clock to ancient times but personally I would avoid Rome as they are just so distinct it is hard to see them as anything else.  Or turn it on its head.  Make East the West and West the East so have Gondor from the Chinese (minus the crossbows?), Rohan are Mongols, Easterlings become the European crusaders - barbaric murderers who descend on friendly lands raping and pillaging.  Or mix the lot.  The Babylonian range from Foundry would make pretty nice Easterlings.  They have chariots, war wagons, horse archers, cavalry, and infantry with big bushy beards.

[LazyStudent]

All,
Tbh, I have always taken a view that the armies of Mordor are those of Rome/Eastern Rome. The description of industry and the bring of war machines etc seems to fit better with the Roman way of war. While the "Free people" are those of the Gothic or Frankish (Migration era) tribes. I like to think of the Elves as the remaining Celtic peoples, with their close connection to nature, while Dwarves are mountain peoples (such as Thracians) who live away from "civilization".

It is an odd take I know, but for me it fits. It is not exactly as written in the books, but it is certainly more how I view the material. And I prefer it far more to the Jackson films (although I do really enjoy the films and think they are great at bringing people into the world!)

Best,
Ed

[Hobgoblin]

If you don't use an existing historical or fantasy range for a number of your factions you are left kit bashing everything - and even then the bits still have to come from somewhere (I assume Hobgoblin isn't going to sculpt the entire lot himself).  If you raid the historical armies for factions you save a lot of time.

That's certainly true, but kitbashing the lot isn't too onerous for HotT armies given the relatively small number of troops required (even for a 48AP game, say). For example, I might only need six Easterlings on two bases - and probably no more than 12 in total.

For the Uruks, I'm settling on Mantic goblin and Oathmark dwarf bodies plus ungor, demon and dwarf heads and a mix of goblin, gnoll and demon arms. I've got lots of those - probably enough to get through the whole project without further investment. I'm confident that the kitbashes will look quite different from most commercially available orcs but will fit well with Tolkien's descriptions. I'm going to try to be a bit unconventional with the painting, though.

I like your 'flipped' ideas - food for thought!

[Hobgoblin]

Tbh, I have always taken a view that the armies of Mordor are those of Rome/Eastern Rome. The description of industry and the bring of war machines etc seems to fit better with the Roman way of war. While the "Free people" are those of the Gothic or Frankish (Migration era) tribes. I like to think of the Elves as the remaining Celtic peoples, with their close connection to nature, while Dwarves are mountain peoples (such as Thracians) who live away from "civilization".

Oddly enough, I bought some Warlord stumpy Roman legionaries a while back to convert to Isengard Uruk-hai (the short stature was a plus, and I always liked the somewhat legionary look that the Isengarders sported on the cover of White Dwarf 53:

[LazyStudent]

Oddly enough, I bought some Warlord stumpy Roman legionaries a while back to convert to Isengard Uruk-hai (the short stature was a plus, and I always liked the somewhat legionary look that the Isengarders sported on the cover of White Dwarf 53:

Ha, interesting. While that was published before I was born, it really captures the look I have in my head for the Orks. Oddly the Isengard Orks have always held a place similar to the imitation legionaries of some of the other kings around the edges of the Roman empire. Decked out to look like the real thing, but not as good when actually fighting. There is a blog that dives into the strategic and tactical differences between the two, and highlights just how great Tolkien is as a fantasy writer. The link is here: https://acoup.blog/2020/05/01/collections-the-battle-of-helms-deep-part-i-bargaining-for-goods-at-helms-gate/

[Hobgoblin]

Aha! Thanks for posting that link! I recently heard a podcast with the author (on Econtalk, I think), discovered the LotR essays and was about to read through them when I closed down all my browser tabs because I had too many open. And I then quite forgot about them!

[LazyStudent]

Aha! Thanks for posting that link! I recently heard a podcast with the author (on Econtalk, I think), discovered the LotR essays and was about to read through them when I closed down all my browser tabs because I had too many open. And I then quite forgot about them!

No worries! I can certainly highly recommend both his Helms Deep and Pelanor Fields pieces. It is really nice to read a serious academic looking at the books in such a way. It certainly deepened my understanding of what Tolkien had written. Sadly it curtails my enjoyment of less good fantasy authors...but perhaps I always knew they were very shallow in their thinking anyway!   

[jon_1066]

Having looked in my copy of the LoTR for Easterlings you could do almost anything you wanted.  There is almost no description whatsoever - I couldn't even find the reference to beards.  The only description is they are wielding axes at Pelenor when they are bought up.  In the Appendix an Easterling invasion is described with Wainriders and leaders fighting in chariots but this is 1000 years before the Pelenor fields.  So I think you could go for absolutely anything as the basis for the Easterlings from a Germanic tribesman to a Samurai!

For Southrons again there is only a couple of descriptions - the cavalry have scimitars and have a serpent standard and red and gold feature in their dress.  The infantry ambushed in Ithilien are better described as Sam sees the dead body.  Scale mail would point to an ancients range being a good base for them.  Perhaps a Roman with a scimitar and a head swap?

For the Gondor forces there is quite a variety amongst the defenders brought in from outlying lands - from roughly armed peasants, to hunters in green to the Swan knights in full harness. 

[Hobgoblin]

Having looked in my copy of the LoTR for Easterlings you could do almost anything you wanted.  There is almost no description whatsoever - I couldn't even find the reference to beards.  The only description is they are wielding axes at Pelenor when they are bought up.

This is the beards bit:

"... countless companies of Men of a new sort.... Not tall, but broad and grim, bearded like dwarves, wielding great axes. Out of some savage land in the wide East they come...."
The Return of the King, LoTR Book 5, Ch 4, The Siege of Gondor

[tikitang]

"Beards", "chariots", "axes" and "east" makes me think of Persians...

[jon_1066]

It sounds like Easterlings is just a catch all term for anyone from the east.   There is history between Gondor and Easterlings so this description is specifically for a new tribe they haven’t faced before.  So long as you have one lot like that anything goes thereafter.

[Hobgoblin]

It sounds like Easterlings is just a catch all term for anyone from the east.   There is history between Gondor and Easterlings so this description is specifically for a new tribe they haven’t faced before.  So long as you have one lot like that anything goes thereafter.

Yes, that's right - although they do come in "countless companies"! But I think I'm looking at just a couple of elements of stocky, bearded axemen. The Uruks will require the most elements - I reckon I have enough Mantic bodies to do seven or eight elements, and I can always add kitbashes based on Oathmark dwarves and EM4 orcs to swell the ranks: they're all of similar short and sturdy build.

Tikitang - yes, I should investigate the (Victrix?) plastic Persians along with the Dacians (which I suspect are on the tall side). It occurs to me that putting helmeted (rather than flamboyantly hatted) landsknecht heads on bodies from an ancient range might help to create an 'unplaceable' look - along with a striking and non-historical paint scheme.

[Hobgoblin]

Here's the first actual kitbash for this project: an Uruk of Mordor. Frostgrave demon head, Mantic goblin body, gnoll arms, sword from a Perry sprue and kite shield from Sauron knows where.

It struck me that this guy has very similar proportions to the Uruks on the White Dwarf cover above. Something that I've long observed is that miniatures and gaming illustrations from the late 70s and early 80s paid a lot more attention to the details in the books than similar things from later on. Note the S-rune on the helmet of the lead figure: the same rune is present on the helmets of early Ral Partha 'giant goblins' and Asgard 'man-orcs'.

Anyway, my Uruks aren't going to be the most radical departures from the norm in this project, but I think this guy is both quite different from most Uruk-hai miniatures out there at the moment and faithful to the book in terms of height, long arms, crooked legs, big head and so on.

And the big shield provides plenty of room for a big old Red Eye!

[LazyStudent]

Looks interesting! Cannot wait to see him/it painted up!

[Blackwolf]

Nice! And interesting ideas  I seem to remember Grenadier’s Fellowship had a distinctly renaissance look.