28mm Eureka Miniatures Chinese Warring States as early Han Chinese?

[Atheling]

My question, for once, is a simple on for the hive mind.....

Can the Eureka Miniatures Chinese Warring States range be used as early Han Chinese?

Thanks and I (hopefully) look forward to the replies :>)

Cheers

[SJWi]

Atheling, I'm no expert but as most Warring States figures are based on the Terracotta Warriors which I think date from c200BC, and the Han period follows fairly soon after I would say "why not"? As the Han period lasts for 400 years I am sure they changed by the end of the period ( as did say the corresponding Roman military uniform), but you asked about an "early" army.

[Cat]

Based on my limited understanding, yes.  I did a bit of google-fu to sort out options for building various 15mm Chinese armies for DBA.
 
This page on the history of shield shapes was quite helpful.  The double-arc shield that Eureka uses is a shape that carried over into the Han period:
https://greatmingmilitary.blogspot.com/2018/05/evolution-of-shields-in-china-part-1.html
 
The Essex 15mm ranges are relatively new sculpts in their lineup, and what digging I did indicated I could trust the decisions they went with by time period.  If you compare their Chin Warring States and Han figures to see what distinctions they went with:
https://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/pages/15mm-ancients

[Atheling]

Atheling, I'm no expert but as most Warring States figures are based on the Terracotta Warriors which I think date from c200BC, and the Han period follows fairly soon after I would say "why not"? As the Han period lasts for 400 years I am sure they changed by the end of the period ( as did say the corresponding Roman military uniform), but you asked about an "early" army.

Hi (if I may?) SJ. This was pretty much m y thinking, at one time the Han were fighting the Chin so this was very much in my thinking too. I know Newline to a range of Han as do Old Glory. Assuming I go for it, it's going to be hard to pick.

[SJWi]

Atheling.  I'm not sure Old Glory UK stock the Han? I can't see them on their website, and looking at Old Glory US some of the sculpts look decidedly odd! I find Newline a bit hit and miss. I love their Hittites but their Sea People's are awful...IMHO.  The Han look a bit of a mixed bag.

Have you thought about the old Curtey's Miniatures range sold by 1st Corps? Quite caricatured and small by modern standards I quite like them, and have a large Warring States army...but no historical opponent.  They produce both Warring States and Han so between both ranges have a lot of choice. They also sell weapon and shield packs so you can "customise" figures. The only noticeable omission from the Han is a "swordsman" pack.   

[Atheling]

Atheling.  I'm not sure Old Glory UK stock the Han? I can't see them on their website, and looking at Old Glory US some of the sculpts look decidedly odd! I find Newline a bit hit and miss. I love their Hittites but their Sea People's are awful...IMHO.  The Han look a bit of a mixed bag.

There is certainly not a wealth of choice. Certainly not mini's to the sculpting standard I would like. Out of OG and Newline, I think I prefer the Newline stuff but their horses look a bit odd.

Have you thought about the old Curtey's Miniatures range sold by 1st Corps? Quite caricatured and small by modern standards I quite like them, and have a large Warring States army...but no historical opponent.  They produce both Warring States and Han so between both ranges have a lot of choice. They also sell weapon and shield packs so you can "customise" figures. The only noticeable omission from the Han is a "swordsman" pack.   

Yeah, I know all the Curtey's, sorry 1st Corp, stuff very well.

[SJWi]

Atheling. The Newline Han seem a mixed bag albeit the paint job on some of them doesn't do them any favours.

[Atheling]

Atheling. The Newline Han seem a mixed bag albeit the paint job on some of them doesn't do them any favours.

That's kind of what I was thinking- maybe I could bring them to life  . I might order a pack and give them a try. They can always go the way of eBay if I'm not happy with the results.

[SJWi]

I'm sure you will make an excellent job of painting them.

[Atheling]

I'm sure you will make an excellent job of painting them.

I've been in touch and Sean(?) has offered to supply shields for the Halberdiers as I want them as simple unexceptional Spearmen.

[Keeper Nilbog]

Whilst discussing possible options, don't forget the Watchful Eye range, which I believe (well it did) have a UK caster.
Lovely models and very Warring States/Han in style.

[Atheling]

Whilst discussing possible options, don't forget the Watchful Eye range, which I believe (well it did) have a UK caster.
Lovely models and very Warring States/Han in style.

Thanks for the suggestion; I'm not a fan of the Watchful Eye range, they're way too fantasy looking for my taste. also, the sculpting style is kind of, errr, "imaginative" is the polite way of putting it

[pallard]

Hi Atheling
My experience with Eureka UK is they keep a limited number available of some references but order the complement if needed regularly. They complete your order with effeiciency. Miniatures are beautiful but quite expensive due to travel costs.
I would say that their range could be used with early Han soldiers except maybe palace units without question, and in border conflicts even later, at least for the Five Garrisons in the Central Asian region. The troops there were from military settlements of soldier families, during some periods with no contact with the Motherland. Therefore uniforms and equipment were probably kept on older patterns and manufactured locally. And as for Ban Chao style expeditions, the infantry would likely be levied from these "limitanei" pools, and the cavalry either from these locals ( trading horses with the nomad breeders),  regular "home" regiments or mercenaries from nomadic tribes such as the Hiongnu, Xienbei or Ruran.
There is a wonderful recent study in french of the Central Asian civilisation from late Han to
the end of the 9th century AD: Asie Centrale, des routes et des royaumes, by Etienne de la Vaissière, éditions Les Belles Letres Paris 2024. Highly recommanded!

[Atheling]

Hi Atheling
My experience with Eureka UK is they keep a limited number available of some references but order the complement if needed regularly. They complete your order with effeiciency. Miniatures are beautiful but quite expensive due to travel costs.

Yes, I very much agree; I have had excellent service from Eureka UK on many occasions.

I would say that their range could be used with early Han soldiers except maybe palace units without question, and in border conflicts even later, at least for the Five Garrisons in the Central Asian region. The troops there were from military settlements of soldier families, during some periods with no contact with the Motherland. Therefore uniforms and equipment were probably kept on older patterns and manufactured locally. And as for Ban Chao style expeditions, the infantry would likely be levied from these "limitanei" pools, and the cavalry either from these locals ( trading horses with the nomad breeders),  regular "home" regiments or mercenaries from nomadic tribes such as the Hiongnu, Xienbei or Ruran.
There is a wonderful recent study in french of the Central Asian civilisation from late Han to
the end of the 9th century AD: Asie Centrale, des routes et des royaumes, by Etienne de la Vaissière, éditions Les Belles Letres Paris 2024. Highly recommanded!

Thanks Pallard. That is actually quite a lot to digest, but I am grateful that you went into so much detail. Unfortunately, my French is none existent so I am sadly not going to be able to read the paper you have suggested.

[Khurasan Miniatures]

A bit late to this convo, but I'm making a 15mm/28mm Early Western Han range right now, have done a lot of research, and also discussed with Duncan Head a bit (he may be one of the respondents here?).

Yes, I think if the figurines are very late Qin, they can also serve as early Western Han.  The one small difference is the way the hairknot was worn.

The hairknot had a ribbon going around the forhead, and the bun was in the back, not the top, and the ribbon tied around the knot.  See image below.

I actually had swordsmen made for the Han range even though there's no references to Han armies using "dare to die" detached or elite swordmen in separate bodies of troops.  I did it to permit gamers to use my range as late Qin.  I think there might be some additional cavalry options as well, but I need to check the various army lists.