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Author Topic: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results  (Read 75213 times)

Offline HerbyF

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2010, 05:53:23 PM »
Well I really enjoyed my first LPL. Although I did seem to match up against all the 'Big Dogs' early on. Hopefully my photography will improve by LPL 5. I did manage to get something painted each week and reduced my 'Lead Mountain' quite a bit. Too bad I forgot the picture in round 9. It was of my Chinese anamorphic cannons that I know some people were looking forward to seeing. I feel fairly satisfied that I managed to pull off at least one win. Next year I am going for more wins than losses.

LHV 2015 +200 2016 +770 2017 +636 2018 +888 2019 +1015 2020 +656 2021 +174 2022 +220 2023 +312

Offline Doc Twilight

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2010, 07:38:07 PM »
Congrats to all. An excellent competition this round!

One possible suggestion would be to make the voting blind. I think that several voters are motivated by names when voting in the various rounds. Taking away that incentive helps to even the playing field a bit.

Edit: Sorry, a bit tired today, want to clarify.

What I mean is that, instead of revealing the name of each painter, the poll should simply place one entry against another, without benefit of knowing who an artist is until the round is over.

I also continue to  maintain, with all due respect, that some of the commentary this round was just out of place and unsportsmanlike. Establishing a separate "comments" thread would help with this.

-Doc
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 07:41:05 PM by Doc Twilight »

Offline D@rth J@ymZ

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #47 on: May 05, 2010, 08:46:42 PM »
While not revealing the names of the entrants may help the voting fairness slightly, most of the "Big Dogs" have very distinctive styles that are recognizable instantly.
Now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb...
- Dark Helmet

Offline Heldrak

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2010, 08:56:40 PM »
Congrats to all. An excellent competition this round!

One possible suggestion would be to make the voting blind. I think that several voters are motivated by names when voting in the various rounds. Taking away that incentive helps to even the playing field a bit.

Edit: Sorry, a bit tired today, want to clarify.

What I mean is that, instead of revealing the name of each painter, the poll should simply place one entry against another, without benefit of knowing who an artist is until the round is over.

I also continue to  maintain, with all due respect, that some of the commentary this round was just out of place and unsportsmanlike. Establishing a separate "comments" thread would help with this.

-Doc

With no disrespect intended toward Doc Twilight, I didn't see the unsportsmanlike conduct that he mentions and I feel like his comments about unsportsmanlike comments earlier in the contest had a chilling effect on commentary throughout the rest of the contest.

For my own part, I feel that praise, critique, joking around, etc. are an integral part of the contest and I would rather suffer the occasional inappropriate comment rather than have entries pass by with no commentary at all or bland, generalized praise for both contestants. The appropriate place to comment on entries is in the entry thread, and partizanship is part of the contest.

Personally, I don't see the point of having anonymous entries, as the voting is already anonymous, and not visible to the voting membership until their votes are cast. No benefit accrues to the voter for "bandwagon-jumping" or "automatic voting for Big Names" so I don't see what the problem is. I think the implication that anyone really votes any way other than the way their own instincts or inclinations tell them is frankly, silly.
2012 Lead Tally: Painted:0

Offline Doc Twilight

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #49 on: May 05, 2010, 09:22:33 PM »
I'm not going to apologize for being honest. I never complained about any of the results in my own rounds, and I went out of my way to avoid commentary in most matchups involving my own paint jobs in order to avoid promoting myself, or denigrating the work of my opponents.

I have no problem with praise, joking around, and constructive criticism. My problem stems from attempts to influence the voting with comments such as "There is absolutely no contest here", "There is only one real choice here", and "Obviously you don't believe in shading. Too bad." That kind of commentary is unsportsmanlike, and unnecessary.

"partizanship is part of the contest"

Then perhaps it's a contest I don't want to be part of. This is supposed to be a contest between painting entries. Not a vote on who has the most friends here on the forum.

"I think the implication that anyone really votes any way other than the way their own instincts or inclinations tell them is frankly, silly."

Then we will have to agree to disagree, because I believe that many voters -do- vote for names. I certainly did look for my favorite painters (Captain Blood and Grimm, for instance.) How else do you explain 50 point lead that turns into a 250 point rout in less than four hours? Perhaps it's an error of the polling software, but the numbers don't lie.

And, as has often been stated before, it IS possible to view vote totals before a vote is cast. One merely has to log out.

-Doc

Offline Overlord

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #50 on: May 06, 2010, 12:15:10 AM »
Congratulations to Captain Blood. Excellent, consistent painting in a clean distinctive style with a new entry in every round.  8)

A very big note of appreciation to the Prof for the hard work involved in setting up and running the League.  Quite how he manages that heavy workload AND paints beautiful entries is beyond me. Kudos  8)

Well done to all the entrants for this League.  Monday mornings are far less interesting now.  ;)

I personally found this the toughest League yet and was really struggling to keep up the pace towards the end.  However, I was determined to get a new entry in for every round.  This did mean the quaility dropped a few times but again meant a load of newly painted miniatures at the end of the season.

At the heart of the League is the incentive to paint miniatures and I personally embrace this idea.  Whilst everyone likes to win and do well (and we do ultimately have a single winner) for me that is not the primary objective.  If you look at the final scores most of the top half of the table have large numbers of bonus points.  Even if you feel your painting isnt as good as others, by painting more you rise towards the top of the table.  I grabbed every possible point this way and undoubtedly ended higher up the table than my painting probably justified.  Also, hopefully the more you paint the more you improve. Surely a win-win situation. 

As long as people conform to common decency, they should be free to comment as they see fit.  If that sways other voters, so be it.  We are all influenced by a variety of factors consciously or sub-consciously, be it comments, painter, topic, miniatures, period/area of specific interest, etc

As was stated several time during the League, the vote percentage you receive is not a true reflection of comparative painting quality.  If 100% of voters think your entry is 1% beter than the other you will get a landslide.  The opposite is also true. 

Overall I think the League works pretty much as originally intended.  My personal opinion is that no real change is required.
2023 Lead Tally: Acq: 265 Ptd: 040  Total: -225
2022 Lead Tally: Acq: 343 Ptd: 073  Total: -270
2009-21 Tally:  Acq: 2950 Ptd: 832  Total: -2118

Offline gamer Mac

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #51 on: May 06, 2010, 12:21:53 AM »
Congratulations to Captain Blood. Excellent, consistent painting in a clean distinctive style with a new entry in every round.  8)

A very big note of appreciation to the Prof for the hard work involved in setting up and running the League.  Quite how he manages that heavy workload AND paints beautiful entries is beyond me. Kudos  8)

Well done to all the entrants for this League.  Monday mornings are far less interesting now.  ;)

I personally found this the toughest League yet and was really struggling to keep up the pace towards the end.  However, I was determined to get a new entry in for every round.  This did mean the quaility dropped a few times but again meant a load of newly painted miniatures at the end of the season.

At the heart of the League is the incentive to paint miniatures and I personally embrace this idea.  Whilst everyone likes to win and do well (and we do ultimately have a single winner) for me that is not the primary objective.  If you look at the final scores most of the top half of the table have large numbers of bonus points.  Even if you feel your painting isnt as good as others, by painting more you rise towards the top of the table.  I grabbed every possible point this way and undoubtedly ended higher up the table than my painting probably justified.  Also, hopefully the more you paint the more you improve. Surely a win-win situation. 

As long as people conform to common decency, they should be free to comment as they see fit.  If that sways other voters, so be it.  We are all influenced by a variety of factors consciously or sub-consciously, be it comments, painter, topic, miniatures, period/area of specific interest, etc

As was stated several time during the League, the vote percentage you receive is not a true reflection of comparative painting quality.  If 100% of voters think your entry is 1% beter than the other you will get a landslide.  The opposite is also true. 

Overall I think the League works pretty much as originally intended.  My personal opinion is that no real change is required.

Totally agree with all your comments.
Don't change a thing.

Offline Hammers

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2010, 05:34:04 AM »
Totally agree with all your comments.
Don't change a thing.

I am sure some little thing will be tweaked till next season but the bulk of them will stay the same.

Offline Admiral Benbow

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2010, 11:54:57 AM »
Well, last but not at all least congratulations to all the winners, participants and voters for another very entertaining LPL! This was my first one without participating myself, and I have to say it was a very entertaining and relaxed experience ... 8)

Special thanks to Alex for running this so smoothly again, and I'm looking forward to see the Captain back in action next time; I'm thinking seriously about being part of LPL 5.  :D

And no, I don't think we need any major changes here. Everybody can read the rules and then decide if he wants to take part or not under the given circumstances.

Thanks again all - it was a good time!

Offline Malamute

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2010, 12:32:07 PM »
Well, last but not at all least congratulations to all the winners, participants and voters for another very entertaining LPL! This was my first one without participating myself, and I have to say it was a very entertaining and relaxed experience ... 8)

Special thanks to Alex for running this so smoothly again, and I'm looking forward to see the Captain back in action next time; I'm thinking seriously about being part of LPL 5.  :D

And no, I don't think we need any major changes here. Everybody can read the rules and then decide if he wants to take part or not under the given circumstances.

Thanks again all - it was a good time!


Here, here, I second that. :)
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Offline Prof.Witchheimer

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2010, 03:58:23 PM »
I've said it a dozen times already - LPL won't be an anonymous contest. Never. Also don't expect any major changes here. It is needless to discuss it any further.

Offline Calimero

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #56 on: May 06, 2010, 05:47:36 PM »

Iím happy with the way the league works now. Iím also happy with the ranking Iíve achieved with the figures Iíve painted.

If I want to reach a better position on the leaderboard, I seriously need to find a way to take better pictures. Right now, I would say that 9 out of 10 pictures entered donít really reflect the actual painting job on the minis. Having better pictures could help increasing my ranking... maybe
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Offline D@rth J@ymZ

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #57 on: May 06, 2010, 06:06:04 PM »
@Calimero: I thought your pictures were pretty good this year.  I especially liked the board or scenery/photo base that you used on a few entries and how it matched your bases perfectly.  I tried to use the same idea on some of my entries.

Offline Calimero

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2010, 06:40:10 PM »
The focus is okay and the images are clear enough but I had problem with recreating the real color on the photos. I also had problem with shadings and highlights (on the rare occasion where I actually paint some) that didnít showÖ
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 11:02:04 PM by Calimero »

Offline Heldrak

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Re: The Lead Painters' League - Season Four - The Results
« Reply #59 on: May 06, 2010, 10:44:25 PM »
The focus is okay and the images are clear enough but I had problem with recreating the real color on the photos. I also had problem with shadings and highlights (on the rare occasion were I actually paint some) that didnít showÖ

Cal' if you're having trouble getting "true" colors in your photographs, take a look at Orctrader's photography advice in the How To thread here:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=6052.0

I took his posted advice regarding doing a manual setting for the white balance and it made a huge difference in my miniature photography.

 

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