Where do I start? LotHS and Cutlass

[hendybadger]

Hi all,
Im abit of a pirate fan as you may be able to tell by my avatar.
A while ago I picked up a large Black Scorpion pirate crew, medium BS undead crew, Cutlass rules and Legends of the High Seas rules.
But where do I start?

What size games?
What is best to use to learn the games?
Is there anyhting else I will need?
All other thoughts and comments welcome

Yaaarrrrr!

[Mako]

Ahoy, mate.

Ye be needin' a vessel o' some sort, iffin ye wants t' be a real pyrate (not really, with these rules, but it makes a good backdrop, and/or playing surface for boarding actions, if it is large enough).  Most know dat a crew wiffout a ship is just a bunch o' landlocked 'oodlums.

LotHS has a rudimentary set of ship rules, which you can use, if you or your friends have a couple of ships, but you might consider other ship/pirate rules too, e.g. Limeys and Slimeys (available for free), Prevailing Winds from Thoroughbred, or Sailpower rules.  There are a number of other rules sets too, so check the message archives.

As for learning the game, I think starting small is best, and it goes quicker if you can learn from someone else who has already played them.

Welcome to the brotherhood, an' beware tall sails on the 'orizon, since dere be pyrate 'unters about.

[Mako]

Avast!

Almost forgot to mention, check out the LotHS Yahoo Group, and the Pirate Wargames Yahoo Group as well.

Lots of info there, and great people to answer your questions, as well as great pics of painted minis, ships, and terrain.

Keep a weather eye on de 'orizon!

[Lowtardog]

LOTHS has already been mentioned, I would think as a starting point you will need around 12 figures per crew and you can build form there. Ideally ensure a mix of weapons. Small ships are good as it gives you an opportunity to play at pirates =rather than shore based skirmish. There are a few companies out there who provide reasonably priced ones to kick start or scratch building is an option.

As to Cutlass, I understand they are land based and very much more fantasy rules so I would guess you need to consider what the factions are. I think that the range of figures must dictate to a greater or lesser extent the number of figures needed for a crew.

[hendybadger]

Ahoy, mate.

Ye be needin' a vessel o' some sort, iffin ye wants t' be a real pyrate (not really, with these rules, but it makes a good backdrop, and/or playing surface for boarding actions, if it is large enough).  Most know dat a crew wiffout a ship is just a bunch o' landlocked 'oodlums.

LotHS has a rudimentary set of ship rules, which you can use, if you or your friends have a couple of ships, but you might consider other ship/pirate rules too, e.g. Limeys and Slimeys (available for free), Prevailing Winds from Thoroughbred, or Sailpower rules.  There are a number of other rules sets too, so check the message archives.

As for learning the game, I think starting small is best, and it goes quicker if you can learn from someone else who has already played them.

Welcome to the brotherhood, an' beware tall sails on the 'orizon, since dere be pyrate 'unters about.

Avast!

Almost forgot to mention, check out the LotHS Yahoo Group, and the Pirate Wargames Yahoo Group as well.

Lots of info there, and great people to answer your questions, as well as great pics of painted minis, ships, and terrain.

Keep a weather eye on de 'orizon!

First up, cheers for the help to both of you.
I have been looking around at ships but not sure where to start. Which companys ships would you suggest?
As for the rules, I want to keep it as easy and quick as possible for now. Will stick to the LotHS ones and then look at others after I know what Im doing.

I know there are a couple of people who play LotHS but thier club is about n hour away. Will have to make a trip to learn.
Also now joined the Yahoo groups. Thanks

LOTHS has already been mentioned, I would think as a starting point you will need around 12 figures per crew and you can build form there. Ideally ensure a mix of weapons. Small ships are good as it gives you an opportunity to play at pirates =rather than shore based skirmish. There are a few companies out there who provide reasonably priced ones to kick start or scratch building is an option.

As to Cutlass, I understand they are land based and very much more fantasy rules so I would guess you need to consider what the factions are. I think that the range of figures must dictate to a greater or lesser extent the number of figures needed for a crew.

Im not good at scratch building so it would have to be a purchased one. Cant seem to find any 8" or less though.

I have Pirates to use for both games. About 25 different ones and 13 Undead pirates for Cutlass.

[Mako]

You're welcome.

Always glad to help a fellow pirate.

There are a lot of different options, but a vessel around 8", or so, in 25mm/28mm scale is a little small.  There are some available, but many will be a little bigger.

To start with, I'd recommend reading the two resources on this site, about pirate ships, and boats:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=24456.0

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=30227.0

They are at the top of the Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts page, and provide a lot of good info, and even some pics.

Other good resources are:

http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/2008/10/setting-sail-collecting-ships-for.html

http://www.gamesofwar.net/acatalog/Pirate_Supplies_Store.html

The former gives a good overview of the various manufacturers' offerings, and the latter is a direct link to Games of War.  The latter used to have a very reasonably priced sloop, which was quite nice, but I don't see it listed anymore.  Presumably, it has probably just been pulled so a new mold can be made, since it was very reasonably priced, so no doubt sold quite well.  You can see a photo of it on one of the above links.

The Games of War Jolly Boat is also especially nice, if you are looking for a small rowboat, or very small sailing vessel.  The wood paneling, and interior detailing on it is unsurpassed, for an especially good price.

I am hoping Games of War will consider producing some other small vessels, e.g. perhaps a pinnace, and a longboat.  I'm especially in need of the latter, and could use several of them. 

Games of War is located in the UK.

Other options, depending upon your budget and availability are the Weapons and Warriors toy playset two-masted, plastic vessels.  With a bit of modification, and a nice paint job, these can look superb, and are very inexpensive, when you can find them on eBay.  They are getting harder to find though.  Some people leave them as is, while others convert the two-masted Brigs to single-masted sloops.

Check the LotHS and PirateWargames Yahoo Group Photos for images of them in various states of conversion, and with some very nice paintjobs.  There is limited space on deck for a crew, but you can always just claim the rest were below decks loading their muskets, and sharpening their cutlasses for the coming battle.

Ainsty is another superb manufacturer of pirate vessels, and their little sloop is attractively priced (they are based in the UK).  It's a bit longer than 8", but is definitely usable, and has more room on deck for a larger crew.  Their range is one of the best looking, in my opinion, of any pirate vessels currently on the market.

Old Glory also produces some fairly small ships, so is worth considering, especially if you buy their Army Card, which gives you a 40% discount on purchases for the coming year.  It costs $50, but helps to quickly defray the cost of the minis, and/or vessels and cannons you purchase from them, not to mention the cost of international shipping (no discount internationally on that, but a 40% discount on the product goes a long way to helping with that).

Scale Creep also has a couple of small vessels they use for pirate games.  They are from the old "Pirates" range of vessels and rules, and are very reasonably priced.  They have a sloop, and a gunboat (the latter can easily be converted into a sloop, or cutter, with a little effort - just add a bowsprit, and your good to go).

Also, check out the files section of the LotHS site, since it includes a template for building a vessel from scratch.  It's called the Gary Chalk ship, and appears to be pretty easy to build, if you follow the templates and directions - one of the commercial ranges seems to be based off his general design, but is made of resin, instead of wood/foam/cardboard.  This is the Minimi.co.uk range of vessels, which is also available from the UK, and is pretty reasonable in price, especially on your side of the pond (international shipping makes them a bit more expensive for us, here in the colonies).

I imagine, given a little effort, you could make a pretty serviceable vessel out of balsa or basswood for the deck, and cardboard for the hull sides, and stern, if pressed.  There really isn't much to the smaller vessels, and a little attention to detail goes a long way to making a great looking vessel on the cheap.

Anyway, the above options should keep you busy for awhile.

Good luck on your project.

[hendybadger]

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply.
Young child and a gaimng con managed to take up more time than expected.

Thanks once more for the help.
Been looking around in the places you suggested and now have my first vessel on the way with all sorts of other bits to go with it

[Mako]

Excellent news!

Which vessel did you decide to go with?

Of course, you do realize you'll be wanting more vessels as well, just like any good pirate, or aspiring privateer. 

It's a slippery sloop, my friend.....

[hendybadger]

I have gone for the Minimi 8" Small Sloop.
Its the only 6-8" ship I could find that I liked.

Is it a good idea to have a lonboat to start off with aswell?

Do you mean more ships the same size or larger?

Is it sad I actually chuckled at 'slippery sloop'?

[Mako]

Sounds like you have chosen wisely.  

I like the looks of their small sloop too.  Their slightly larger one is very attractive also.

"Is it a good idea to have a longboat to start off with as well"?

I think it's a good idea to have a rowboat, or longboat, or two, so your crew can get to shore without having to swim for it (some people from that age didn't even know how to swim, despite serving on ships - LotHS has rules for drowning, so best to avoid that, and the sharks too).  It can be towed astern of the sloop.

Given the size of the small Minimi sloop, I'd recommend going with a smaller rowboat, instead of the longboat, since the latter might be almost the same size as your sloop.

Ainsty produces a very nice looking rowboat, as does Games of War.  Both are very nice looking, well detailed, reasonably priced, and you see them all the time in pirate game photos.  

I am especially partial to the Games of War Jollyboat, due to all of the fine detailing in the interior - it is simply extraordinary, and doesn't show up well in the pics of it.  The wood grain, and very fine support rib detailing in the interior is good enough for a museum replica.

You can use the jollyboat as a rowboat, or add a small mast and sails to it as well.  I'm considering drilling out the bottom, so you can install a rare earth magnet where the mast should go, so I can use it both ways.  

There are no benches for crew figures in the vessel, but those can easily be added, if you like.  Again, I'm considering adding a drop-in section of seated crew figures on benches, so they can be added as needed when on the water, and/or removed when pulled up on the beach.   At 5.00 GBP, they're inexpensive enough you can just by extras, if you don't want to go to that trouble, and just outfit them both ways, if desired.

The Ainsty vessel has the benches already cast into the interior of it.

The Weapons and Warriors game dinghy would be perfect, since it is so small it could be carried on deck, but it can probably only carry a couple of standing figs, and 3 - 4 seated ones, if you modify it for that.

A number of pirate crews started out very small, by stealing or borrowing a rowboat, or periagua, and then trading up to a sloop, or larger vessel sailing by (usually best taken when the winds are very light, and the ships are near shore), or anchored in a port, or along the shoreline.  Having small boats on hand will permit you to play out those scenarios too, should you so choose.

"Do you mean more ships the same size or larger"?

You can go a variety of ways, e.g. more of the same sized vessels, or larger.  Pirates were frequently looking for bigger, better, faster vessels, and frequently either took the better one, and gave their old vessel to their victims, if they surrendered quickly and cooperated well, or kept both the new and old vessels to create a small pirate fleet.  LotHS doesn't permit that officially in their rules, but no reason you couldn't do that, if running a campaign, playing a series of linked games, role-playing, or doing some solo gaming.

Many victims of pirates were trading sloops, but they did take larger vessels as well, when they encountered, or could catch them.  Merchants were usually under-manned, and frequently poorly armed, so many would just surrender at the sight of a pirate.  Sometimes though, they chose to fight back.

"Is it sad I actually chuckled at 'slippery sloop' "?

Yes, probably.

I was posting late, and meant to say slope, but apparently had sloops on the brain, so made a Freudian slip that I didn't notice.

As you can see, I'm coveting a few more sloops myself, for some pirate gaming.  They are planned to serve as vessels for: other pirates, merchant vessels, fishing vessels, privateers, and the Spanish Guarda Costa too.

Having a number of vessels in play is a good way to cause some confusion, and create some tension amongst your players, if conducting naval battles on the high seas, as well as boarding actions, since you never know what your up against until the last minute.  Are they merchants to be preyed upon, friendly, or enemies to be feared.  Even the flag they're flying may be a ruse.

[hendybadger]

The day after I order the Minimi ship, Games of War bring out thier new Sea Dog.
So what did I do?
Ordered that aswell!

I will probably pick up a couple of the Ainsty row boats then. Look really nice and seem to fit for what Im going to need.

The Jollyboat is abit big for a rowboat so may have to be used as a merch or trader.

Are there rules for buying larger ships in LotHS? And what happens if you lose yours? Do you get a new small ship?
Hope we can get a fleet up and running between us. Planning on atleast 6 ships myself already.

[Mako]

Well, see, I was right about the slippery slope/sloop thing afterall.

Won't be long before you'll want a 50 gun vessel to go pirate hunting, and/or to avoid with your pirate vessels.

I haven't used the ship rules in LotHS, so can't really recall.  

I think in the game, if you choose to play their seafaring scenarios, you just start out with a small sloop, and can perhaps work your way up.  I know each pirate, or crew band can only have one vessel at a time though.

I also seem to recall a scenario where a vessel is tied up at the docks, and one band tries to take her, while another tries to stop that from occurring.

For the small boats, the Jolly Boat and the Ainsty Rowboat are about identical in length and beam.  The Jolly Boat just looks bigger in the pic, due to all of the fine detailing inside it.  Both are about 5" long, and about 2" wide.

The Jolly Boat could represent a small fishing, or trading vessel, especially if you add a mast, so would be a good victim for a beginning pirate crew, assuming they can catch her, if she is rigged with a sail.

[hendybadger]

You didnt tell me how slippery the sloop was going to be.
Now have a Merchant ship and 2 rowboats.
I want the big ones already!

Thaks for the help and advice