"good" space marines...?

[B. Basiliscus]

Alright people, I got a question that needs answering.
I've never liked WH4k. Its for multiple reasons, and I'll not get into them because I'll undoubtedly offend someone and this will devolve into all you fine lead lovers telling me how wrong I am.
I've recently acquired a sort of morbid curiosity about it, thanks to some rather entertaining fanfiction, and I've been thinking more and more about playing it.
I was originally putting thought to my own custom army designed specifically to trump space marines and tyranids (with glaring weaknesses against most everything else that strategy would have to make up for) that was composed of the manifestations of living planets in the galaxy, tribal alien life forms, spiritual monsters and creeping plants, but that would be hard and cheap and no one would let me play with them.
So, since there aren't any interesting aliens for me to sink my teeth into and I more than likely wouldn't be able to field my own, I've decided to look into the next best thing.
Space marines. Space marines are pretty cool, miright? They get to throw their weight around and smash whatever they like and be awesome.
The problem is that I utterly and completely loathe their quest to scour the stars of 'heresy', which, from my understanding, is "every alien life form that poses a threat to humanity", which boils right down to "Eliminate all alien life". That's a no go for me, because aliens are what make Sci-Fi interesting and beautiful.
Are there any GOOD space marine factions, armies, or groups that have been established in Warhammer that desire to rise up against the emperor, overthrow him, and establish a more friendly empire for humanity? Chaos marines are technically trying to do that, I believe, but they're causing more harm than good under their eldritch daemon masters, so they're out of the question too.
How hard would it be to make my own? Could I just play a space marine army and get rid of all the heresy cleansing?

Thanks, much appreciated gentlemen.

[Inso]

What you do is decide on a colour scheme, decide on a background and then play them.

There is no reason why you can't put together a 'peace-keeping' force... as GW keep saying "there are a thousand Chapters and you are free to design your own."

Maybe your Space Marines were separated from the light of the Emperor and had to get along with aliens in order to survive through trading?

Maybe your marines got fed up with all the Imperial rubbish and decided to set up on a world somewhere and do their own thing?

As long as you come up with explanations for the wargear and equipment (counts as) and can explain why that special character has those options then everything is cool.

[B. Basiliscus]

I was planning on a color scheme of olive green for main armor pieces, silver for trim, and red for certain detail parts. I also want to use the 'beaked' helmets and paint them with those angry shark mouths that you see on plane nose art. I'm genuinely terrified that someone will steal that idea. :c

Their background would probably be simple; a chapter of marines taking a look at themselves while crusading, realizing they were butchering innocents along with threats to humanity, deciding they wouldn't take orders from a corpse on a crapper (inb4 heresy), hiding out and amassing their forces and then striking against the imperium.

I want the name of their chapter to be a humorous jab at the imperium, or something that bespeaks vengeance, or something reminiscent of old world war propaganda.
I'm just going with The Jets for now...

[Ajsalium]

Are there any GOOD space marine factions, armies, or groups that have been established in Warhammer that desire to rise up against the emperor, overthrow him, and establish a more friendly empire for humanity? Chaos marines are technically trying to do that, I believe, but they're causing more harm than good under their eldritch daemon masters, so they're out of the question too.

Chaos marines are good. Really. That thing about «they're causing more harm than good under their eldritch daemon masters» is just imperial propaganda. Honestly.

Other than that, I'd go for UN blue helmets marines. Call them as you wish, but base the colour scheme on the real life blue helmets.

[Dr Mathias]

No reason at all you can't have a chapter rebel and do their own thing. The fluff supports all sorts of marine chapters going about their own business in odds to the general aims of everyone else, and quite a few are autonomous to the point of being detrimental to the rest of the Imperium. I'm sure some even traffic with aliens although I can't recall off the top of my head.

Not sure what you read, but the book Blood Gorgons was IMO a great insight into a bit player in the scheme of Chaos marine chapters and the brotherhood of warriors idea. Their patron god was even a wuss
I was always a little sympathetic towards the Thousand Sons. They're about the least nasty of the bunch.

As for overtly 'good', it seems like the 40K verse doesn't offer much of that.

I'm with Scurv- ever since I read Nemesis many years ago I've been a little pissed about what GW has gotten away with regarding the genesis of 40Ks core concepts.

[Hrothgar]

I am working on a very extensive 40k solo campaign using a FUBAR derivative (rather than the official rules) I'm calling Xeno Hybris. Basically, I really enjoy large chunks of 40k, but it falls down flat with all the xenophobia and race-killing.

Xeno Hybris is the name of a secret faction among the inquisition who believes the only way forward for mankind is to unite with other sentient, rational species. The focus of my campaign will be to wage a secret war within the Imperium and recruit forces needed to reshape the entire system (without resorting to chaos). I reckon there must be latent forces within the Imperium (even among space marines) who would sacrifice their xenophobia in order to save mankind from itself.  

[Too Bo Coo]

Alright people, I got a question that needs answering.
I've never liked WH4k. Its for multiple reasons, and I'll not get into them because I'll undoubtedly offend someone and this will devolve into all you fine lead lovers telling me how wrong I am.
I've recently acquired a sort of morbid curiosity about it, thanks to some rather entertaining fanfiction, and I've been thinking more and more about playing it.
I was originally putting thought to my own custom army designed specifically to trump space marines and tyranids (with glaring weaknesses against most everything else that strategy would have to make up for) that was composed of the manifestations of living planets in the galaxy, tribal alien life forms, spiritual monsters and creeping plants, but that would be hard and cheap and no one would let me play with them.
So, since there aren't any interesting aliens for me to sink my teeth into and I more than likely wouldn't be able to field my own, I've decided to look into the next best thing.
Space marines. Space marines are pretty cool, miright? They get to throw their weight around and smash whatever they like and be awesome.
The problem is that I utterly and completely loathe their quest to scour the stars of 'heresy', which, from my understanding, is "every alien life form that poses a threat to humanity", which boils right down to "Eliminate all alien life". That's a no go for me, because aliens are what make Sci-Fi interesting and beautiful.
Are there any GOOD space marine factions, armies, or groups that have been established in Warhammer that desire to rise up against the emperor, overthrow him, and establish a more friendly empire for humanity? Chaos marines are technically trying to do that, I believe, but they're causing more harm than good under their eldritch daemon masters, so they're out of the question too.
How hard would it be to make my own? Could I just play a space marine army and get rid of all the heresy cleansing?

Thanks, much appreciated gentlemen.

I think you'd like Tolkien games better....  I understand 100% what you mean about no 'good guys', just shades of grey.  I think, and our English friends I hope will forgive, this is an 'English thing', Tolkien aside.  On a level, I like the RR Martin, Warhammer ambiguity about the world,it's in many ways more 'authentic', if you please.  But on the other, is the valid point you make.

What you can do, very easily and well within cannon, is to simply create your own chapter, perhap a derivative of a core chapter, and make up their own story.  And sort of 'White Hats' Chapter of good guy rebels....  Lots of opportunity there.

I don't play anymore personally, more for cost than anything else.  But it's a good game, and more importantly, you'll never starve for lack of opponents....

[Hrothgar]

Another possibility: lots of humans are supposed to reside in Tau space, so why couldn't there be one or two SM chapters that decided to remain with their home worlds and fight for The Greater Good?

[Diakon]

Another possibility: lots of humans are supposed to reside in Tau space, so why couldn't there be one or two SM chapters that decided to remain with their home worlds and fight for The Greater Good?

That's a right idea. Pinched. I'm gonna paint Tau and Space Marines the same colour scheme. 

[Mr Brown]

There is a whole whack of Chapters that have been written about over the years and by a number of different authors in a number of different guises.
As has been stated before, the best bet is always to just come up with your own back story and run with it. Unless you have a good gaming group who are interested in story arc campaigns or fluff, most of your opponents (from my experience at least) won't give a hoot. They just want to push around some figures and roll some dice.

Chaos Marines wouldn't be the worst way to go. Don't take anything 'daemonic' and they can be an old chapter from the time of the heresy who didn't side with the traitor Horus but also opposed the enthroning of the Emporer. I have been planning something along these lines for a while but waiting on the new BlackLegionCodex before I settle on anything. Basically marines that are out to protect humanity but don't think all xeno's are 'EVIL'. More in tune with the RogueTrader atmosphere.

Its all down to perspective really and making sure you enjoy the game.

[Red Orc]

Can I ask a question in return, that might not even have occurred to you?

Why do you care about the Games Workshop backstory?

The fluff and the game itself have only a tangental connection. Those who have been with 40k for the 25 years since it began have seen some convoluted rebrandings and reworkings of the overall story and how it all works. Orkish mercenaries allied to the Imperium, the demise of the Squats, the invention of the Tau, the awakening of the Necrons...

It doesn't matter what the backstory is - it can easily change from one edition to the next, but also, it's only a game. Whether your army is 'good' or 'bad' in fluff terms, it'll still turn up to the games club on a Thursday to fight against Steve's army, because that's what you make it do. How you explain that action ("Listen up men, we're tasked with securing this sector against the insurgents who've been terrorising the civilians" vs "Oh, Brothers of Immortal Holy Avenging Supreme Monks of Kick-Ass, our most reverend Prayers and Supplications fly through the Aether to the All-Knowing Heart of the High Protector of Humanity, that we might Smite the Accursed Heretic Unbelieving Wrong and Not From Round Here ones who are Most Naughty in His Holy Sight...") is entirely up to you - not Games Workshop.

In 'game' terms, Space Marines are an elite army (in that they tend to have fewer but tougher troops) with interesting weapon combos but restrictions on some tactical choices (eg, if you want assault weapons and heavy weapons in your squads you need them to be 10-man). So what if they're all religious racists, psychopaths and chemically-neutered steroid-heads? The 'game' SMs are a series of numbers represented by 30mm high plastic figures. Their back story can be whatever you want it to be.

They have some weapons and armour that are 'conventionally' represented - a bolter is a bolter, and power armour is power armour, if you're a 'Codex' marine (Ultramarines, Salamanders etc) or a Blood Angel or a Space Wolf or a Black Templar or a Dark Angel; but also if you're a renegade or an out-and-out Chaos marine. It doesn't matter. In the old Space Marine book, GW said that the Codex rules were fine for representing renegades - ie, you can play a Chaos force with the Loyalist rules. Equally, you can use any marine codex for successor chapters. And you can use any marine model to represent any Chapter, iconography permitting. You want Ultramarine veterans in robes? Use Dark Angels models. You want Blood Angels Death Company to look like knights? Use Black Templars. You want an attack-horde of great combat troops, but put off by Blood Angels minis? Use Chaos Marines but play by Blood Angels rules. It doesn't matter. Counts as is counts as, a bolter is a bolter, power armour is power armour. The colour doesn't matter (blue, red, grey, green, black), nor does the shape of your hat (with horns or without). I've played around with a Blood Angels list for a Chaos chapter before, it was fun.

You could even go very sideways with the whole 'counts as' thing. How would 40k represent, for instance, a Dalek? It's got tough armour, a pretty effective ranged weapon and can graple in close combat, but it's maybe not very fast on its feet, so to speak. Maybe your Daleks can fly too, I don't know. Is it, perhaps, like a Necron Warrior? Or an Assault Marine? Can you use an existing codex to represent something different, something that (as yet) doesn't appear in the 40k universe, but that you'd feel happy about playing? There are something like 16 Codices out there with a variety of army styles... is there one that you can use to build your army? That's really the point I suppose. The important thing is not necessarily a backstory you're happy with, it's models and rules that you're happy with. A codex-legal army list is the starting point as far as rules go, and how you chose to model that is your business not GW's (unless you're playing in a Gw store, or your opponents don't know what you've got). But if you're sensible, and clear, that isn't a problem. "You've never come across a Balthusan Electro-stunner before, but in game terms, it works exactly like a Tau Pulse Rifle..."

So, yeah; don't feel that you have to abide by the GW canon for backstory is the long and the short. It's your game, and your army... you should feel free to do what you want within the spirit of the rules (that I really do believe boil down to 'you can pick a list from these sets of options, and should represent them in an appropriate manner').

[Roebeast45]

You might also dig into the stories of The Star Child and The Sensei. These are explained in the two Realms of Chaos books. the Star Child is the pure soul of The Emperor that is adrift in warp space, waiting to be reborn. It gives power to The Sensei, The Emperor's immortal children that were birthed by mortal women. The Sensei are seen as heretics by The Imperium because the seek to end the hateful society that sprang up around the Undead Emperor. And they are sworn enemies of Chaos since Chaos taints the purity of warp space.

[CptJake]

I don't play really 40k, but I painted up the marines from the Battle of Maccrage set and a few others as my Sci Fi 1st Cav.  I did play out the scenarios (and extra scenarios) for the BoM set but decided the rules and 40k fluff were not for me.  So now my Cav Troopers and 'Nids fight using other rules...

[Predatorpt]

There's a Chapter that can be of some use to you:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Soul_Drinkers#.T4d4T1GvJ8E

The Soul Drinkers do not fit the standard template of Excommunicate Traitoris. Unlike most Renegade Space Marines, who have devoted themselves to the Chaos gods, the Soul Drinkers despise the Ruinous Powers as much if not more than they hate the Imperium that cast them out. Instead, they have developed an ideology that states that the Imperium has betrayed everything the Emperor has stood for; so they still fight the powers of chaos even though they disagree with what the Imperium now stands for. Some within the Chapter think that the Imperium should be destroyed for the good of mankind.

And here's what I did with my WH40k...

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=7872.msg206495#msg206495

Let's see - It's the year 4001 and the know universe is in turmoil. A civil war has decimated the Terran Empire and the Emperor is dying, entombed in his Golden Throne. The High-Lords of Terra (aka Earth) rule in his name, with the support of the Imperial Guard (raised from the habitants of the colonies, or at least the loyal colonies), Imperial Navy, the Space Marines (that in this case are more akin to the Master-Chief from Halo than normal WH40k one. All of them are from the Solar Colonies and Earth) and the Ecclesiastic (who is "fighting" to turn the Emperor into a God, who can be worshiped by the masses). There’s also a force called the Mechanicum, a "scientific cult" who worships the Ancients who once ruled Mars. They are neutral, selling weapons from their Forgeworlds to both sides of the war. Of course they are doing this to further the goals of the Ancients...

Opposing the Terran Empire we find the Fringe Colonies, who are trying to gain independence from Earth. The have their own Revolutionary Guard (aka Traitor Guard), a Navy and their own version of the Space Marines (more low-tech than the Empire ones). Their numeric inferiority is compensated by their alien allies - the Tau - who lend them troops and logistic support. Sometimes the Eldar also help, but they are a dying race and they can’t afford to loose more members of their race.

But there are other races in the mix  From the fringes of the galaxy come the Xenomorphs (aka Tyranids/Aliens) and their all-consuming Hive Fleets, laying waste to anything they can find. The Terran Empire tried stopping them using a Mechanicum-created biological weapon. Unfortunately that weapon evolved into the space-fungus infestation know as the Orks…

There’s also the reptilian KarackZar; the Skrulls and lots of similar small alien races who see in the Terran civil war a way to expand their domains.

Unknown to most of them, an even older race is stirring in its tombs and vaults. The C’ton (worshiped as the Ancients by the Cult of the Mechanicum; other races legends and stories call them Cy’lons) are coming back and planning on, once again, cleaning the galaxy of all organic life forms. Some worlds have already seen their “touch” – the most well-known case was the Cameron colony, practically wiped out when its central computer (aka Skynet) was subverted and decided to terminate all humans. The planet is now a Deathworld, ruled by Skynet.

[B. Basiliscus]

WOW this thread got popular fast... 
Love all the replies, guys, glad to know they'll be an easy force to make and that I won't have to do much fiddling with rules. I'll have to look into Nemesis and such - sounds interesting.

I'd like to address the question of 'why go with the fluff?' just to say that I like fluff. I'm a big fluff guy. Lore is my bread and butter, and I tend to play things or with things based on their fantasy histories because it means I won't have to waste precious time thinking up things that aren't for MY fantasy settings. My mind forces me to come up with convoluted lore when there isn't any, and I unfortunately have a hard time enjoying myself when there isn't some default knowledge available. So yeah, I like fluffy stuff. 

Back to the artistic standpoint, I may go with a dark metallic brown as the main power armor bits and give them a bunch of steel rivets all over. Kind of want to emphasize a WWII fighter plane theme because it seems cool. Can I get some feedback there too?

And please, lets continue with the fluff discussion, its cool to see all this and its helping me learn more about the game without buying codexes and sifting through wikis.
Keep posting your own stuff, too! Love other people's takes on this setting thing!