Death of Warhammer Historical

[doublenot7]

Warhammer Historical has closed.  Too bad, they had some goods games and we have enjoyed playing legends of the Old West.  Luckily I picked up the Blood on the Plains and Alamo book before they closed down.  I missed the last book, Gunfight (?).

[Elbows]

Well, that sucks.  Anyone have inside information on what's next?  Will these titles be moved to a new manufacturer, or is GW shifting them around to another area? 

They had some good stuff - the Gladiator book was excellent, and some of their newer stuff quite good.

[Stavros Banjo]

It is indeed a shame. I will admit to not being a huge fan of some of the rules but you always knew you'd be getting a high quality publication.

So who wants to buy my now out of print collection of all the Old West books for a grossly over inflated price? 

Just kidding, they're nice books so plan to keep them.

[Johnno]

Showdown was the 4th title

[Elbows]

I tended to house-rule their rules sets quite a bit, but as mentioned they were always rather well done books.  Easily the best thing GW produced.  Now I can say I'm 100% done with GW.  I do hope they transfer their rules sets to a new publisher.  They released a LOT of material in the last year...and now it's all kaput.

[Hauptgefreiter]

You might want to check this topic:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=42059.0

[Notts Gamer]

I tended to house-rule their rules sets quite a bit, but as mentioned they were always rather well done books.  Easily the best thing GW produced.  Now I can say I'm 100% done with GW.  I do hope they transfer their rules sets to a new publisher.  They released a LOT of material in the last year...and now it's all kaput.

Just spare a moment for all those writers with projects in the pipe-line.......

[admiraldick]

a very sad developement indeed for us fans. i have to agree with others in saying that many of the Warhammer Historical range trumped their 'normal' systems.

having worked briefly for GW last year i can understand their logic for closing down production (they want to focus their attention on their core games, to make sure they stay and the high standard and level of support that us gamers demand from a manufacturer), nevertheless its a shame that they don't feel that they could just keep printing the works that already exist. it struck me as quite a sensible sideline to have, as it gave an avenue for their games designers to vent some greative juices when working on only two and a half systems felt too stiffling.

sadly, its unlikely we'll see any of these works again, their most popular systems were, of course, based on core gaming systems (WAB on Fantasy and LotoW on LotR) so there is simply no way they could pass them on to another publisher. there were a few of their games that i never managed to play (Trafalgar and Kampfgruppe Normandy) so i don't know whether their rules sets were entirely new. so if anything rises from the ashes pheonix like, it will be those games. but i don't put much faith in that happening.

a very sad day indeed.

[Elbows]

Here's my issue with GW.  I've played GW games since I was about...(does some math) 13 years old.  I grabbed my first minis back in 2nd Edition 40K.  Back during the days of outriders, and small hobby shops.  The days when GW had two or three retail locations available in the entire country.  GW was already a big name in the UK, and various other commonwealths, but it wasn't huge here yet.

White Dwarf had great articles, and gave lots of scenarios, and free cards, templates etc.  There was still a lot of "the gamer down the street" feel to their games, minis and rules.  They encouraged kit-bashing, and gave tips and hints on how to use other miniatures or models to fill gaps in their range.  There seemed to be a truly genuine passion flowing.

I lived with a guy who's now my best friend, and he was a manager at one of GW's retail locations from 2002-2005 or so.  Then they shut his store.  Sadly he revealed how poorly GW does financially (or at least it was).  I'm not up to speed with their finances right now.  Either way, the meetings of managers and district managers and corporate etc. spelled out pretty plainly that they had lost much of the passion, and pushed heavily into hard numbers.

It's obvious that a company the size of GW has to do something like that.

I saw some great things come out of GW, but they always disappeared.  Necromunda = fantastic (easily better than 40K by miles!).  Mordheim = also fantastic.  Warhammer Quest = bar none the best board-game dungeon crawler ever released.  It showed that there was some true talent at the company level, but these games were always a flash in the pan, and then discontinued.  I never understood that at all.

I was surprised when I saw that many of the Warhammer Historical titles were actually written or edited by some of the guys from back in 2nd Edition 40K days.  I do think this is largely because WH games have never supported a model line.  That means the writers and creators are free from the stricture of linking game-mechanics to business interests.  There is no power-creep, etc.  It's just good gaming rules.

GW has long disappointed me, but this is ridiculous.  How hard is it to print a few books? 

[Croaker343]

How much did the "Hail Caesar" rule sets help do in WH in GW's eyes?  I know that the local stores in my area of Southern California is a crazy for it.  About six months ago I mentioned WH, and no one even raised an eyebrow.

[Mo!]

Showdown is my least favourite of the LOTOW books... not really worth the full retail price when compared to the other books...

[styx]

It is a sad thing, the amusing part is that they had very little overhead for  historical. Write a book, let them go find their miniatures...update the book every few years, resell it. I am at a loss as to why they dropped it as they could not find high enough #s.

Same for Necromunda, Mordheim and other Fanatic games. They could have made plastic sets for Necro and Mordheim that would have brought revenue into the Fantasy and 40k line with crossover bits options. Again, most was easy to maintain systems with some revamping and rewrite.

I wonder if Fantasy Flight may take up the banner for these books? They are dabbling already in the mini market.

I used to work for GW also, the passion has fallen out, they want to recruit and not really maintain the gaming population anymore...they want sales...problem is they don't know how to treat the community right.

[Elbows]

^Agreed.  I really don't understand how a one-off product that you honestly don't have to update (maybe include some errata every now and then) can cost so much to keep producing.

On top of that, I think GW is missing out on the crowd that is willing to dabble into GW miniatures games, but not go all in and make it a huge hobby.  A lot of people I know were put off by the vastness of it.  "Wait, I have to buy the rules, a codex, then choose miniatures, buy them, paint them etc...".  Those same people could have bought Mordheim/Necromunda/Warhammer Quest...loved it, gotten a taste for it - then moved on to bigger and better things.

I was though, surprised at how brilliant the books (art, design, etc.) from Warhammer Historical were, as of late.  Compared to the comically bad codexes being thrown out by GW every 3 months.  Very different work force behind the projects I imagine.

I've never cared for Warhammer Ancients, but at least the book was beautiful (I think the entire Warhammer Fantasy/Ancients system to be rather poor really).  Either way, sad to see it happen.

[Dewbakuk]

^Agreed.  I really don't understand how a one-off product that you honestly don't have to update (maybe include some errata every now and then) can cost so much to keep producing.

I would expect that given the sales prices etc on the WH books recently, they were clearing down the stock levels. Given that, then they probably didn't want to do another print run. A full print run costs a lot of money and takes up a fair bit of warehouse space, especially for multiple books that won't have the turn over of GW's main books. Smaller print runs are a possibility but they still use up a fair amount of space and the price per book is higher. GW has been winding down Warhammer Historical for a while now and I expect they just don't want to spend more money on it.

Same for Necromunda, Mordheim and other Fanatic games. They could have made plastic sets for Necro and Mordheim that would have brought revenue into the Fantasy and 40k line with crossover bits options. Again, most was easy to maintain systems with some revamping and rewrite.

Slightly different situation, but there is nothing stopping you playing Necromunda etc now. Many of the figures are still available through the webstore and you could always use figures from other manufacturers if you wanted The important part, ie the rules, are available to download for free (better than WH). Why isn't it pushed or supported more? Money. The games don't sell enough figures to warrant the support level.

[styx]

I would expect that given the sales prices etc on the WH books recently, they were clearing down the stock levels. Given that, then they probably didn't want to do another print run. A full print run costs a lot of money and takes up a fair bit of warehouse space, especially for multiple books that won't have the turn over of GW's main books. Smaller print runs are a possibility but they still use up a fair amount of space and the price per book is higher. GW has been winding down Warhammer Historical for a while now and I expect they just don't want to spend more money on it.


Slightly different situation, but there is nothing stopping you playing Necromunda etc now. Many of the figures are still available through the webstore and you could always use figures from other manufacturers if you wanted The important part, ie the rules, are available to download for free (better than WH). Why isn't it pushed or supported more? Money. The games don't sell enough figures to warrant the support level.

True and I do play. what sucks is with the plastics getting so nice, HELLO! make a plastic gang set for each gang. The bitz could have carried over into 40k for Imperial Guard and Greyknights. A train really pulled out of the station for GW if you ask me. The hobby industry is really turning towards skirmish games and GW is not going anywhere near them to get a slice of the pie.

I have a copy of the GW red book and the early way of thinking, that is not the company we see today.