Shoot N' Skedaddle - SNS PDF version available for $7, rules free online.

[Elbows]

Ah...I suppose I should open it up huh? 

Should be fixed.

[Heisler]

They are not marked that way for me. I just went into the Gamecrafter site and was able to download the free rules. But there did seem to be an issue ordering any of the card decks, looks like some kind of broken link.

[Elbows]

Hmmm...well, poop.  Heisler what link were you using - from the rules pdf?

I tried the links from the PDF (last page) and they all opened the GC page for purchase for me.  Anyone else having issues with links, please let me know which link you're using and I'll investigate it.  The address/store pages shouldn't have changed since they were posted (and the PDF page should be open now).

[Elbows]

Shoot N' Skedaddle (PDF Version) now available from Wargames Vault as well.  Same price of $6.99.

http://www.wargamevault.com/product/131341/Shoot-N-Skedaddle-PDF-Version

[oabee]

Mr. Elbows:

I came to this discussion just lately, as I've been looking into all the various Old West rules sets as a prelude to jumping into the period.

Got the PDF of your rules, and like them a lot. I especially appreciate the dice roll system for tests: the idea of a constant to-hit number (5, in this case) with different dice to vary the probability is an elegant system, eliminating the need for cumbersome charts, while catering to my affection for games with lots of dice.

Considering your philosophy in developing this system: I notice that you do not use the d10. I am interested in what prompted your decision to skip it: including it would have made the probabilities more linear or arithmetic (6-8-10-12-20, or +2, +2, +2, then jumping to +8 changing the sequence), and omitting it as you have done makes them more exponential or geometric (6-8-12-20, or +2, +4, +8). Having dabbled in the past with writing rules, I am fascinated about decisions that game developers make. I would be interested in your thinking in this case. No criticism here, just curiosity.

[Elbows]

Absolutely.  In fact I started with a D10 and had a D12 as the final step initially.  Like you I was doing the linear thing "+2, +2. +2. +2 etc.".

However, upon doing the math you'll see the issue here!  If we need a 5+ to successfully score, this results in the following:

D6: 33%
D8: 50%
D10: 60%
D12: 66%

So you have gaps of: 17%, 10%, and 6%...so the increase in skill actually gets you less and less of an advantage.

D6: 33%
D8: 50%
D12: 66%
D20: 80%

Using these dice your steps are now: 17%, 16%, and 14%.  This means that the advantage of gaining a dice is a good bit more linear.  Now, the original logic makes sense if you're simply using stepped dice for say, opposing rolls.  Ie. a character rolling a D6 vs. a character with a D8, etc.  However with a constant success number which doesn't deviate, I prefer the increased steps to be a bit more linear.

For instance if we used the old system, and had a character with a shooting skill of D12 and two sixguns.  You'd always be willing to drop to a D10 (penalty for shooting both guns at once) because you'd lose a mere 6%.  Whereas going from a D12 now down to a D8 you're dropping 16% per shot.  So in the end I just wanted to keep the gaps between levels more consistent.

PS: The "Last Chance" equates to roughly 11%, where an "Unstoppable" test is 94%! (however...since this is as good as it ever gets there is always a chance to fail a roll/action).

Hope that makes sense!

[Dolmot]

D6: 33%
D8: 50%
D12: 66%
D20: 80%

Using these dice your steps are now: 17%, 16%, and 14%.  This means that the advantage of gaining a dice is a good bit more linear.

I guess this is just an isolated example but you'd get those percentages with perfectly linear steps by just using a D6 and different target values like we did in the 80s.

[Elbows]

Yep.  The goal here is that the stats are all linked to colour-coded dice.  So it makes it a little easier than adjusting the rolls of a D6.  And, while silly it adds a little bit of excitement whenever the big bad D20 comes onto the table.  

Particularly at conventions "Okay, so you get to roll two red dice...".  

At the beginning of a game it's easy to say "okay, every single dice roll in the entire game, the goal is 5+". 

[Dolmot]

For my convention game I made custom D6s, otherwise blank but there are 2, 3 or 4 sides with a 'hit' symbol (colour-coded according to the number). The only rule is that you pick a combination of colours and need 'hits'. Therefore the only difficulties appearing in single-die rolls are 33, 50 and 67%. Obviously there could be 17 and 83 too but I didn't bother for reasons.

Admittedly it does require making custom D6s from blanks. However, who knows if there was wider request for such dice. At some point it might make sense to order a real batch.

[oabee]

Hope that makes sense!

Absolutely! This is the difference between a casual observer (that would be me  ), and someone delving deeply into a system, analyzing it inside out. So an---apparently---exponential sequence is needed to achieve a truly linear result. Excellent! I told you it was an elegant system....I just didn't know how much! 

it adds a little bit of excitement whenever the big bad D20 comes onto the table. 

Exactly right. 
 

[Elbows]

Just remember it only makes sense if you're using a solid immovable goal number.    All the math goes out the window if you need different target numbers, etc.

In fact if one is opposed to using different dice, you could easily "translate" the system over to D6's only.  It'd be quite simple.  Just require a little change of math and some of the percentages would change a bit.

PS: Dolmot, I'm a big D6 w/ icons whore.  I've ordered waaaaay too many dice sets that I've made for Blood on the Sands etc.  I may even be using that system for a dungeon crawl game I'll be doing eventually.  I love icons and icon combinations being used for skills and attributes.  That's a whole new method of math though.  For a tank game I was making (abandoned) I had similar icon dice, and again with an icon on 1 side, another icon on 2 sides, and a third icon on 3 sides etc.  The only issue there of course is the additional cost of dice - though I use the big blank D6s with sticker icons I can design/order.  Good stuff.

[oabee]

I'm a big D6 w/ icons whore.   The only issue there of course is the additional cost of dice - though I use the big blank D6s with sticker icons I can design/order. 

There just was a successful Kickstarter by Custom Game Lab (here in the States) for custom design-yourself d6s. I bought 3 dozen, and have designed dice for the  British, French, and Indian for Muskets and Tomahawks (French and Indian War) using  an icon for the "1" and period fonts for the rest of the numbers. The Kickstarter ended May 12, so we haven't got our dice yet, but when I get my finished product I'll let you folks know. In the meantime, you might want to keep an eye on the company.

The cost for the dice was hefty---$1.39 apiece---but I too am a dice whore and it's well worth it to design your own dice. This company may be of interest to you game designers out there, as I'm sure prices will come down over time as they ramp up, and of course bulk orders will also probably lower unit prices. I've already designed new dice for Academy Games' 1812: excellent little board game  , but (sorry Uwe!) their dice are ugly. 

[Elbows]

Yeah I've gotten with Chessex who will do custom runs, but for around 50 dice with six sides the cost becomes around $2.50 a dice or more!     I'd have to be super set on my dice before investing in something like that again.  I recently sold off about 30 sets of Chessex dice...I never met a set of dice I didn't like.  But reality hit me and I figured it was silly to have sooooo many dice.   

I still have plenty to spare...

[Mister Droid]

I'm really intrigued by these rules. I downloaded the PDF yesterday and read through them several times. I really like what I am seeing. To the point that I am going to order the cards from Gamecrafters this afternoon. Kudos. It's quite nice to see some rules with originality.

[Elbows]

Mister Droid,

Thanks!  Feel free to email me (address on Gamecrafter) or PM me here if you have any questions.  I also like posting up games on my blog so if you end up running any games in the future, take some pics.

Cheers!

PS: I'm actually working on some SnS stuff as we speak...