Darklands First Edition kickstarter (nicest minis around)

[madzerker]

Check out this kickstarter for Mierce miniatures Dark Lands rule book and more minis. (it is there second kickstarter, the first one was awesome!)
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mierceminiatures/darklands-first-edition

I have a ton of the miniatures already produced and they are the nicest fantasy minis out there, they are like when Confrontation hit the market in late 90's. Check out the mierce miniatures site to see all the stuff they have already produced.

This kickstarter will have some Norse crew, demonic romans, formorian beastmen and infantry for the other kindreds as well.

check it out!

[FramFramson]

I'm afraid there would be quite a lot of hesitation around here before jumping on a Mierce KS/IGG Campaign.

[madzerker]

yeah I understand that but everyone is happy from the first kickstarter (myself included). They have been on time with everything (early on a few items) and the quality has been stunning!

[madzerker]

Last 24 hours and it is doing great! Figured I would give notice to those that are sitting on the fence.

[maxxev]

Love the minis, but I cant afford them (certainly the 1st kickstarter was better value and even then I knew I coulden't afford them outside of the KS, ... so i'd never be able to make a larger army...).

Also the game looked like it would require a hell of a lot of note taking....

AND I wont give any more money to that man again if I can possible avoid it.

[dijit]

AND I wont give any more money to that man again if I can possible avoid it.

Whats the story here?

[Timbor]

Mierce Miniatures is owned and run by Rob Lane, who was the owner of the late Maelstrom games, which went bankrupt and resulted in many customers losing money on purchases.  Most of the animosity towards Mr. Lane is due to the fact that Maelstrom continued to take pre-orders on unreleased product, and orders of out-of-stock product even when their trade accounts were suspended due to non-payment.  Effectively, they were accepting money for product they knew they could not deliver.

I have heard strong speculation that money from Maelstrom Games was siphoned off to fund/subsidize the initial production of Mierce Miniatures, which were originally under the name of Banelords/Banebeasts (and were sold to "Mierce Miniatures" just before Maelstrom went bust).  This may be mere internet speculation, but the reality was that many customers lost hundreds of dollars when their long-standing orders never showed up, and the paypal refund date had expired.

I have read statements and opinions from both sides, and it has convinced me that even if what happened was mostly due to bad luck, Mr. Lane made some horrible business decisions which resulted in many hobbyists losing a lot of money.  I almost lost a couple hundred dollars if it were not for paypal refunding my purchase.  The sour taste left in my mouth has been enough to keep me from wanting to trust Mr. Lane with my money.

The miniatures are indeed very nice, but are super expensive.  All the detail will likely make them a pain to paint up well in any reasonable amount of time, and some of the concepts are kinda odd.  That and I have no time to pick up a new game, let alone convince other people in my area to put up the cash for this one.

Maybe in the future Mr. Lane will redeem himself.  I was a longtime customer of Maelstrom games, but Maelstrom's collapse was rather fast and catastrophic with little warning until a few weeks until it happened, so my trust will be hard to regain.

[maxxev]

The most important factor to me is that a number of people looking into Mierce's books before Maelstrom sold off the mniatures to Mierce a few months before their collapse.

Mierce had a working capital of £0, yet somehow they purchased what will have been tens of thousands of pounds worth of sculpts, molds, casts AND professional paint jobs from Maelstrom right before they went under.

Mealstrom went under because they could not pay the bill they owed simple miniatures (£100,000), which Wayland games purchsed from Simple miniatures and then placed a final demand on.

Simply put, how is it that Mealstrom was turning a profit for year after year and then all of a sudden coulden't pay thier bills but started producing a LARGE range of professionally sculpted and painted miniatures all of thier own?

Then when the writing was on the wall, a company conviniently setup by Rob a few months before everything crumbled purchased all the stock, molds, painted miniatures, etc from Mealstrom (plus a load of un-released items (all the steampunk terrain was meant to be being released by Mealstrom)), when the company had absolutely no working capital prior to this?

It sticks SOOO much I cannot believe he got away with it, but then in this day and age I really shoulden't be suprised (just read about the Royal mail float and how a very rich person managed to get even richer through underhanded dealings due to George Osborne's best man).

Here are the statements released by all three compaines at the time:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/11/retailing-maelstrom-games-down-and-out.html

[Quirkworthy]

There is a lot of speculation and wrong info on this kicking about the net. I am not saying that Mr Lane is entirely without fault here, however there is a lot more going on than has been made public and it is unfair to sling all the mud his way. Quite apart from anything else, have a look at the records of both his companies at companies house (the UK repository for legal documents concerning limited companies) and you'll find that the debt incurred by setting up the miniatures company was paid back to Maelstrom in full and completely legitimately. That split was initiated when Maelstrom was still expanding and seems to have been part of Mr Lane's long term plan for a family of game-related companies.

[Donpimpom]

I dont know anything about how was the crash of Maelstrom, but years before that, when the company was running "nicely", I placed orders a couple of times and the customer service I received both times was very very bad, worse than bad, with complete lack of communication, unjustified delay delivering orders, etc. Probably my worse customer experience with online hobby retailers.
Maybe my years of professional experience in the ecommerce industry turn me into an uber-demanding customer, maybe, or maybe is because I know how some things can be done better easily if you have the will to improve.
My customer experience with Maelstrom will keep my money away from any company managed by same hands. Mostly a KS project, where (IMHO) the flow of communication with backers is a must.

[leonmallett]

There is a lot of speculation and wrong info on this kicking about the net. I am not saying that Mr Lane is entirely without fault here,

He was the sole director; where else would blame lie? He accrued the increasing debt. He did so while setting up other ventures. Therefore he is entirely at fault. He may not be at fault for the timing, or even Waylands decsion, but he is at fault to have traded into that position.

 

however there is a lot more going on than has been made public and it is unfair to sling all the mud his way. Quite apart from anything else, have a look at the records of both his companies at companies house (the UK repository for legal documents concerning limited companies) and you'll find that the debt incurred by setting up the miniatures company was paid back to Maelstrom in full and completely legitimately. That split was initiated when Maelstrom was still expanding and seems to have been part of Mr Lane's long term plan for a family of game-related companies.

Out of interest do you have a value for the debt repaid by Mierce to Maelstrom? I would be very curious to see what value Mierce placed on those materials, goods and property.

The fact remains that however Lane was shuffling money around, Maelstrom managed to trade into insolvency. Maelstrom was trading in a position that it could only incur losses if orders were fulfilled (40% discounts at the end), and was seemingly taking orders it could not really fulfill. That all lies with one man, who seems to be going about this new project without making any attempt to redress the actions of his business.

 

[Relic]

I would never give my pennies to Maelstrom scammer..

[Quirkworthy]

I'm not here to defend Maelstrom, or Mr Lane, in regards to specifics. Some people obviously had bad experiences and that's not good. I can't say I ever had a problem personally. What I am saying is that the whole story of Maelstrom's demise has definitely not been made public (nor am I in a position to elaborate further). The opinion you express is entirely understandable - I'd be equally unhappy if I'd lost money - but it's based on partial and (some) wrong info. You can choose to believe me or not, I'm just sayin'.

Regarding the Kickstarter, I've not been looking to see what has happened to those who pledged for the first one. I think the first waves of models are shipping or have already shipped. Have they arrived? Been as expected? Are there actually problems with the Kickstarter that this post is supposedly about or with the previous Darklands one?

[leonmallett]

I'm not here to defend Maelstrom, or Mr Lane, in regards to specifics. Some people obviously had bad experiences and that's not good. I can't say I ever had a problem personally. What I am saying is that the whole story of Maelstrom's demise has definitely not been made public (nor am I in a position to elaborate further). The opinion you express is entirely understandable - I'd be equally unhappy if I'd lost money - but it's based on partial and (some) wrong info. You can choose to believe me or not, I'm just sayin'.

However it does sound like you are trying to defend Lane, by saying the debt from Mierce was repaid to Maelstrom.

I am not trying to troll, I promise, but have you anything publicly known to back that up, or just anecdotal comment?

If there is evidence publicly available to support your statement, i would be interested as it may modify my view.

Lane did trade Maelstrom into insolvency, like it or not. Liabilities went up while net worth decreased. Then there was the fire sale with nothing to show for many customers.

Now for many those orders may be just tens of pounds. Some may be hundreds or more. But they went unfulfilled nonetheless.

I had years of generally good service form Maelstrom, however right now i regard Rob lane as perhaps the most dishonest trader in the UK miniatures industry, purely because what happened did not happen overnight, therefore he had to know what was happening.

Regarding the Kickstarter, I've not been looking to see what has happened to those who pledged for the first one. I think the first waves of models are shipping or have already shipped. Have they arrived? Been as expected? Are there actually problems with the Kickstarter that this post is supposedly about or with the previous Darklands one?

Despite being an aggrieved customer of Maelstrom, I would have no doubt the KS would be fulfilled. I have never suggested otherwise; the KS business model appears to work well for Mierce.

The two (the KS projects and the trading into insolvency, and possibly shuffling around of assets) are certainly largely separate things.

[Quirkworthy]

You can get the company records from companies house for a pound. That will have some information in.