Rules suitable for Western "Battles"?

[NickNascati]

All,
      Following on Fifteensaway's Skirmish discussion, I have a question for the group.  I really enjoy Western games at the skirmish level, there is great re-playability and room for changes based on research. However, since I have somewhere close to 100 figures, say 85 armed men, I'd like to be able to play out the larger actions that occurred in conflicts like the Johnson, Lincoln and Mason County Wars.
      I figure that I could probably do a modification of The Sword and the Flame.  However, if anyone has suggestions, I am open to hearing them.
                                                      Nick

[Conquistador]

There is part of the problem to the earlier thread.  No suitable rules seem to be out there.  They may be out there but I have not found them yet...

Edit: I find TSATF to lack severely when you get to melee to the point that it ruins the game for me. There are a few other mechanics I think are "kludgy" at best also.  I only play TSATF games presented by a few fellow war gamers locally and have sold off all my TSATF rules from early sets on.  From TMP (outdated now) "... Current edition published by And That's The Way It Was... "Revision 1" (second printing) 1984 by Greenfield Hobby Distributors. First edition published 1979 by Yaquinto Publications..." means I started with "Revision 1" and it was the latest/greatest in out local group using first edition rules when I brought to the club.

Gracias,

Glenn

[scouts19508]

You could use Too Fat Lardies: Terrible Sharp Sword it's a supplement for Sharp Practice. Of course you have to like TFL style of games. Brother Against Brother ACW rules if you can find them.

Jim

[psyberwyche]

LOTOW's Frontier supplement has rules for larger-scale games, but you're still only looking at around 30 models per side for an optimum game (you can play larger games than that, but it starts to slow down the more models you have, as it's primarily a skirmish system with bolt-ons).

The Alamo supplement is purely for massed battles, but then you're looking at large units rather than individual models, which might not work for what you're suggesting. If you limit all of the units to skirmishers, you could probably make it work.

Overall though, I'll add to the general consensus - the wild west doesn't generally lend itself 'mechanically' to large scale battles. Those battles amount to large numbers of individuals banding together to fight, and is really difficult to represent in a tabletop game without resorting to units, coherency, command radii, etc., which all break the feel of the setting.

[Conquistador]

You could use Too Fat Lardies: Terrible Sharp Sword it's a supplement for Sharp Practice. Of course you have to like TFL style of games. Brother Against Brother ACW rules if you can find them.

Jim

I thought BaB and TSS were more skirmishy? (is that a real word?) but glad to know they handle (small?) battles too.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

LOTOW's Frontier supplement has rules for larger-scale games, but you're still only looking at around 30 models per side for an optimum game (you can play larger games than that, but it starts to slow down the more models you have, as it's primarily a skirmish system with bolt-ons).

The Alamo supplement is purely for massed battles, but then you're looking at large units rather than individual models, which might not work for what you're suggesting. If you limit all of the units to skirmishers, you could probably make it work.

Overall though, I'll add to the general consensus - the wild west doesn't generally lend itself 'mechanically' to large scale battles. Those battles amount to large numbers of individuals banding together to fight, and is really difficult to represent in a tabletop game without resorting to units, coherency, command radii, etc., which all break the feel of the setting.

It seems there are lots of mass battle/unit based - stands rules for really large battles, (which I will arbitrarily define as more than 100 figures for discussion,) and many, many "skirmish like" rules, (where forces are usually figure single based and generally run from 1 (RPGs) to a couple of dozen figures.)  Smaller battles are harder to represent it seems.

And yes, it is somewhat out of character in the minds of many people for "battle rules" in the Old West games.  Yet many of the Indian wars had instances of large groups of warriors/soldiers/civilians "on the ground" such as Greasy Grass. 

Gracias,

Glenn

[Tom Reed]

If you can find them, Greg Novaks' Pony Wars is a great set of rules for larger games between Indians and US Cavalry. We used to have 100+ figures on the table in 15mm.

[NickNascati]

Let me clarify.  What I'm talking about, are range wars, feuds, and the like, with more than 5 but less than 30 figures per side.  I'd want a set that allows for figures to be differently armed, but with the same quality in each group.

[Tom Reed]

Old Glory/West Wind has a set of rules called Cowboy Wars, which uses a quality die system.

[BaronVonJ]

Hey Nick, I think you're on the Fistful of Lead group. PM me, we've used FfoL at larger scales with some success.
-J

[NickNascati]

Jaye,
         PM sent.

[BaronVonJ]

...and responded to. Hope you like 'em.

[psyberwyche]

Nick, after your clarification I'd say that the 'competitive play' rules in the Frontier supplement for LOTOW are therefore ideal. I misunderstood and thought you were looking for upwards of 100 figs.