Fantasy skirmish.

[dijit]

I'm beginning to find Song of Blades and Heroes a bit basic and bland. It's fine for one off games, but not really something that makes me really want to come back for more. Where it works really well is with well scripted scenarios in a convention sort of setting.

My other problem is that many other rulesets are tied to specific lines of miniatures and aren't particularly open - when you have a huge range of existing minis lying around, you want to be able to use as many of them as possible. Still searching for that holy grail of fantasy skirmish rulesets.

Skulldred got pretty close, then it seemed like Dave King didn't really bother to keep up with updates as the rules progressed and then he got ill and all momentum died.

[maxxev]

I'm beginning to find Song of Blades and Heroes a bit basic and bland. It's fine for one off games, but not really something that makes me really want to come back for more.

this is exactly the same experience I've had.

I,be purchased fanticide and have a PDF of brink of battle to try out with the downloadable fantasy supplement beta but mordheim holds a very special place in my heart and I don't know if anything can replace it. in the end it may just come down to a rewrite of it's war band rule and re-imgining of the magic rules for me.

at the end of the day I'd love to try lots of different campaign skirmish games to find the best but I don't really have the time any more. I wish the community here had more people willing to try smaller companies rules-sets.

[Conquistador]

If it wasn't for magic unbalancing every game out there if it has more than a minor effect on the game than any good historical set that reflects the tech/culture of the game setting would work.  "Races" are just another label for custom designed or stereotype driven "nations."

It's worse in mass battle games but it warps every Fantasy game I have ever played in and the more relevant or powerful the magic to the game play the more it warps the game.  I love fantasy I just think it is the hardest factor (I don't do points driven games) to balance in Fantasy.

I prefer to find a historical set that works for the technology/history/setting I want (Samurai, Ancient Egypt, Renaissance, whatever,) then work "Magic" into the game carefully.  YMMV.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Faust23]

Ok Ok!  I'm writing as fast as I can! 

I am feverishly working on the finishing touches for Brink of Battle's first supplement, Epic Heroes: Skirmish Gaming in the Realms of Fantasy.

For the past 7 years I've been developing the main rules for expansions into both fantasy and sci-fi genres.  I have watched system after system get released and then get dropped when people reach the tipping point and realize that what was popular wasn't always what they were really looking for.

We have a March 2014 release date for the book. You will need the Brink of Battle core rulebook to use the supplement. The main book was just over 55,000 words. Right now, without the Flyers and War Beasts chapters added, we're over 65,000 words for Epic Heroes.

My goal is to dramatically change the way people play skirmish games.  You can read the reviews and feedback for the main rules on Wargame Vault, so I won't post them here.

Mordheim was my first love when it came to man-to-man level skirmish games.  As one recent reviewer said about Brink of Battle, "Brink of Battle feels very much like the spiritual successor to Mordheim, except that it offers considerably more depth and flexibility.". We have Injuries, Experience, and Campaign play built in as well as one off or tourney game set ups.

Epic Heroes will do what no other Fantasy skirmish game has done: You can add Monsters & Magic to any 'Historical' period, so we give you the ability to play traditional medieval/renaissance fantasy like Mordheim, or Weird War 2, Weird West, Ancient Myth, Modern Day Cthulhu Hunters, etc.  You really will have an inexhaustible resource.

We have the most comprehensive magic system of any wargame.  You can build a D&D Adventuring Party if you like with Class like Vocation Traits, Inborn (Racial type) Traits, Power, Champion, and Profile Traits.  We have rules for Exotic Cavalry like lizard, lion, spider, or warhawk mounts.  You can start with Magic Items on your Commander or Veterans, or build your models with Esoteric Traditions like Mystic Rites, Paladin Virtues, Fellguard Sanctions, Witch Hunter Edicts, Fu Disciplines, or Alchemical Formulae. 

Here's a link to our hobby side of the project http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=48872.0

Here's a link to our blog page with photos at the bottom, as well as my miniatures blog with pics throughout

http://brinkofbattle.blogspot.com/

http://4sparta.blogspot.com/

And of course our website at www.brinkofbattle.com

We gave the world a free 'taster' over a year ago with the Epic Heroes Ashcan.  It is a night and day difference from when we released that to what Drew and I have written since.

And for more insight to where we're going with this you can read the second interview Alex of Anatoli's Game Room did with me here http://anatolisgameroom.blogspot.com/search/label/Brink%20of%20Battle

Any questions? 

Bob

[Faust23]

Looks like I killed the thread. Did I overshare? 

In case you were interested, Wargame Vault has Brink of Battle in its Winter Offensive sale going on through Jan 2nd.
You can link to it here http://www.wargamevault.com/product/101770/Brink-of-Battle-Skirmish-Gaming-through-the-Ages?term=brink&filters=0_0_0_0_44296

[Booboo]

Otherworld Miniatures is busy releasing a set of rules:

http://z9.invisionfree.com/Otherworld_Minis/index.php?s=d037921d772a821ed95110cbd50afffa&showforum=21

DJ

Very eager for this set, I hope we get news soon.

[beefcake]

Thanks Faust. Sorry I did read it but didn't reply. Imlike how you have said about the adding of monsters and magic to historical armies. I don't have ay historicals but it makes things interesting.
I'll be interested in the otherworld rules also.

[robh]

I have been chasing this holy grail for a long while now also, but for games that allow me to use the classic D&D rpg classes and monsters.

Tried and rejected all the available sets listed here (apart from Fanticide....too expensive for a speculative trial run) plus various iterations of D&D miniatures games, WotC Chainmail and have just picked up a copy of the 2nd ed Battlesystem skirmish to try. Mordheim is probably still the most complete and accessible pick up system that combines battle rules, character/warband advancement and campaigns and always plays well. Shame that it is so mired in the GW world.

The best warband sized Fantasy game I have ever played was the Rackham Dogs of War expansion from the Confrontation game, quite complex and very figure range specific....but a superb gaming experience.
The team behind the Impetus battle system rules have a fantasy game version of the "Smooth and Rifled" skirmish set under development, but it could be a while yet before it is released (as with the final version of the Fantasy mass battle rules). The Goalsystem Delves set from last years Kickstarter looks interesting and certainly covers the right ground, I would like to find a low priced copy to try out as the reviews seem positive.

BUT, all that said I keep returning to the Savage Worlds rules and expansions as the closest yet to the set I am trying to find. Very flexible, certainly a lot of fun to play just requires one person to "own" the campaign setting and manage the character/warband development through the scenarios. 

[Penchour]

Very eager for this set, I hope we get news soon.

So do I 

[Conquistador]

<snip>

Any questions? 

Bob

Impressive if you can achieve all that.       

Has much more than I need or even want but time will tell.   

Old Wargamers are wary of enthusiasm.   

Gracias,

Glenn

[Hatemonger]

Any questions? 

Ok, I have one.
Is there somewhere I can read about (or preferably, try out) the actual mechanics of the system?

Yes, yes, I know your system is absolutely wonderful, it's the best one ever made, it's the last one I'll ever need, etc, and a mere $20 is truly a bargain for such a thing.

Unless it isn't. Because the Two Hour Wargamers say the same thing, as do the Cult of Blades and Heroes, or the disciples of Legends/Lords of the Rings/West/High Seas/rolling 6's, and the Savage World Savages, etc, etc.

In all seriousness, I would happily pay $20 or $30 for the genuine (as robh put it) holy grail. I have a lot less enthusiasm for paying $20 apiece to test out each potential candidate, much less the time and effort required. All the stuff you wrote above, all the blog posts, even the 'ashcan' preview of the supplement, all say lots and lots of what your design goals are, but they don't do anything to show me how you executed them. Don't get me wrong, you have lots of lovely painted miniatures on your blog, and the narrative post-game reports are entertaining to read, and they speak volumes about the enthusiasm you have for your product. But that doesn't necessarily correlate with my enjoyment of the system; it doesn't tell me how I'm going to feel about playing, or equally important, how Sean and Jeff and Dan are going to feel about it, when I have to convince them to try yet another crazy ruleset I found on the internet, and it doesn't convince me I should bother to try.

So... convince me. Please.

- H8

[Anatoli]

If you want a bit more in depth info you can always read my review of the rules as I cover most of the game mechanics - that should allow you to get an idea of how the game works.

http://anatolisgameroom.blogspot.se/2012/03/brink-of-battle-wargaming-through-ages.html

[Booboo]

small game, ten to twenty miniatures or less even. Something that involves magic and has a good character generation and levelling tool. Wide variety of races would be good or perhaps even something that let's you make your own race with just basic stats

Qouting Beefcake, but this goes to you as well Hatemonger.

Pretty much sums up Crooked Dice's action engine well, and seriously, I really think Otherworlds ruleset based on those rules will meet your requirements well, plus it is being done by some guys who really respect old school D&D roots.  So, tricky part is to convince you on a set of rules that's not out yet, but we have some information about actual mechanics.....

First, Otherworld mini's has posted a lovely entry on previewing the rules as they develop.  You can find it here.  http://z9.invisionfree.com/Otherworld_Minis/index.php?showtopic=972

Second, those familiar with Crooked Dice's games will be familiar with these descriptions, as the base mechanics are the same (with some departures for the genre).  Even though the Otherworld rules are not released yet (soon) one can still get a very good glimpse into how the game plays through the perceptive of 7TV, 7ombieTV, 7th Voyage, or the Dr Who miniatures game.  The last of which can be found free at http://www.drwhominiatures.co.uk/

When it comes to scale, and scope, crooked dice's rules are extremely flexible and I imagine it would be difficult for Otherworlds to be any less so.  It will be very easy to go from say Mordheim style to play to Heroquest/Gauntlet style gaming.

Seriously I've never been more anticipatory for a ruleset.

Anticipating the "when" question, this is all I have go by from the Otherworld Forum. 
"Scheduled release is Spring 2014. Cheers Wayne."   and "Crowdfunding would be sooner. Assuming the funding goal is reached then there would be a gap for the physical printing of the rules, tokens, card decks etc. The intention is to also have a .pdf version which would be available immediately after the crowd funding campaign. W."   

[Penchour]

Anticipating the "when" question, this is all I have go by from the Otherworld Forum. 
"Scheduled release is Spring 2014. Cheers Wayne."   and "Crowdfunding would be sooner. Assuming the funding goal is reached then there would be a gap for the physical printing of the rules, tokens, card decks etc. The intention is to also have a .pdf version which would be available immediately after the crowd funding campaign. W."   
[/quote]

From what I read, yet it's still anticipative, .pdf should be released when you pledge, that being the reason why it takes so long as they need to have the rules ready before starting the crowdfunding.

[uti long smile]

Anticipating the "when" question, this is all I have go by from the Otherworld Forum. 
"Scheduled release is Spring 2014. Cheers Wayne."   and "Crowdfunding would be sooner. Assuming the funding goal is reached then there would be a gap for the physical printing of the rules, tokens, card decks etc. The intention is to also have a .pdf version which would be available immediately after the crowd funding campaign. W."   


From what I read, yet it's still anticipative, .pdf should be released when you pledge, that being the reason why it takes so long as they need to have the rules ready before starting the crowdfunding.

Sorry for the radio silence! Just posted an update on the OW thread and on the CD forum.