Has Kickstarter finally hit rock bottom?

[Sangennaru]

@ Sangennaru:

The software the table designer is using is cheap/free as long as it isn't for commercial use. The KS that I highlighted was really to buy that software because he wanted to start up a business.

In other words; not just a personal project in which investors are invited to share/fund, no real need for funding from a business perspective, no especially original or risky product/design. Therefore, why does it need KS? I mean, really?

Sorry, probably it's just me, but that doesn't sound so absurd:

"I am good at making tables, and i'm using a free software for that. Many people asked me to make tables for them but i don't want to be against the law... But what if people ask and then change their minds after i've bought the software? Let's do a kickstarter!"

What's the problem with that? Why is he supposed to use a bank for this? I think it's perfectly legitim, and everyone here would be at his place!

[Too Bo Coo]

On the subject of a collapsible cardboard table ... what about this?



http://move-itproducts.com/move-it-shop

1200mm (nearly 4ft) x 600mm (nearly 2ft), it weighs 4.5kg (just under 10lbs) and costs £40 (about 49 Euros) with £15 UK delivery.

Ok, but for $40.00 you can buy a legit plastic/metal table whose lifetime wont be measured in single digit uses.  Cardboard just does not hold up well. If they had opted for that plastic board that more or less is built like cardboard, then that might have been better, but a paper table is like throwing money out the door.

[Major_Gilbear]

@ Sangennaru:

I understand, and I agree with you in principle. But it's really a question of scale that changes things.

Getting "x" pre-orders to buy one copy of a $500 software programme doesn't need KS. Pre-orders, and not just passing interest.

That goes double when the plans are already drawn (in the free non-commercial software), and you simply need to copy them over. The guy even has proof that the plans will build a working table, since he has one built to show off.

On the other hand, how many sets of plastic models would you need to sell as pre-orders before you can afford to hire a sculptor, a mouldmaker, and get the lot all packaged up and shipped? The answer is: far too many to reach the required funding level before people who pre-ordered get bored of waiting and pull their money.

That's the key difference for me. That's where a project needs to have some level of funding that's just not realistically achievable in a moderately short period of time by many businesses.

[Cubs]

Not much in it Cubs. For $99 you get two in the KS, which is around the same as what two of yours would cost.

Maybe it's just me, but £55 for a 2' x 4' cardboard box and a four cardboard tubes seems bloody expensive! 

Yeah, maybe. So my cardboard umbrella idea isn't going to be a winner either?

[Sangennaru]

That's the key difference for me. That's where a project needs to have some level of funding that's just not realistically achievable in a moderately short period of time by many businesses.

And i agree with that.
But: why even a very small project shouldn't be there? I agree, he could have used preorders, but probably he doesn't even have a web shop.
In italy, for instance, it's extremely hard to open a web shop, while running a kickstarter (well, sort of) is a great solution. So: why should you blame hime? I would have done probably the same thing, since there's the opportunity! ^^

[Timbor]

TBH, as the 'investor' offering my money for a KS project, I would much rather back a project 'pre-order' than one which still has yet to be developed.  If the product is almost ready to go, I can anticipate what I will receive and should have a shorter wait time.

Nowadays, I tend to shy away from KS campaigns where master sculpting and casting of the main figures has not yet been completed.  Unless it is from a reliable company like Reaper, Mantic, who has a proven track record of what can be expected.

KS may be mostly a glorified pre-order nowadays, but at least it puts more responsibility on the project creator to pitch a viable product and do some legwork beforehand.

If you have ever watched Dragons Den (in Canada) or Shark Tank (in the US), I see a KS project as no different than people pitching their products to the investors.

[Sangennaru]

Compared to pre-orders, there's a great difference:

If you don't reach the goal, nobody will be upset.

So: if i need to buy a very expensive program and i get three preorders, i will loose more money than i get! If i get only 3 backers, everyone will just not get anything, and nobody will complain.
That's the genius behind kickstarter. Nobody loses.

[Dewbakuk]

That's the genius behind kickstarter. Nobody loses.

Apart from the ones that funded and failed...

[Sangennaru]

Apart from the ones that funded and failed...

Sure, but that's a problem that is identical in a pre-order system, in a web-shop system or whatever! That's between the seller and the buyer... And it sucks, i know =(

[Timbor]

Apart from the ones that funded and failed...

That's why it pays to be picky when choosing a company to support.  Risk management.

[Cubs]

Difference is though, with most internet purchases - pre-orders included - you are well insured against not receiving your goods, or receiving faulty goods, whether that be via Paypal or your bank. With KS the investor has a lot less protection and, in the case of stuff that is still in the develop stage, there is a hell of a grey area as to when you get your stuff and what exactly constitutes the seller fulfilling their promises. If the final product isn't what was originally touted the seller can just say it was changed naturally during the development stages and it's then you have to get the lawyers in.

Having said that, I agree that there's nothing wrong with an entrepreneur trying out their idea in a KS, whether I personally want to buy it or not. If he doesn't reach his goal then perhaps he will then ask questions as to why and further develop his product from there. If he does reach his goal, I guess the idea (and big tits) proved good enough to sell.

[Sangennaru]

If he doesn't reach his goal then perhaps he will then ask questions as to why and further develop his product from there. If he does reach his goal, I guess the idea (and big tits) proved good enough to sell.

this.

[Conquistador]

Sangennaru, Cubs.

Exactly.

On several levels.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Archie]

I work with a lot of sales people professionally and what I saw in that video was a genuine attempt to present a new idea in an interesting way. So there was an attractive curvy woman in the video ... let me introduce you to an age old (92 years old actually) marketing principle A.I.D.A. which stands for

Attention
Interest
Desire
Action

Given the multiple comments about the girl (my favourite being Gary's 'there was a table in that video') it seems this got our attention ... So it worked 

did they then build our interest in the product well we've spent a while kicking about the idea to the degree of linking to other products ... So it worked 

did they build desire (for the PRODUCT) hmmm maybe not but they were close - some discussion of the materials longevity might have helped ... didn't work 

Action ... as in buy it - nope  ... as in think about alternative folding tables ... yup 

If there had been more about the longevity of the product maybe from the gaming group "We've been using the same tables for two years and they get played on twice a week but are still perfect" etc that might have helped win us over.

I certainly don't think this is terrible.

Overpriced? Well it depends. A table I can transport around and play on vs one of those new GW Knight models ... all comes down to value rather than price (value being the perception of the price cost vs use / desire matrix ... it gets complicated)

For me this was a perfect kickstarter - an individual person with an idea offering it to the world ... well done that man ... and I've seen far worse corporate videos in my time! (Although the spelling mistakes should have been easy to catch.)

[beefcake]

I wonder why they didn't opt for making the table out of corflute. It is about the same as cardboard in strength, if not stronger. We is about as much, and as it's plastic water won't affect it at all.