Conan [Monolith Boardgame] - KS over and funded

[grant]

I think the sculpts look great.

[Nord]

No lamentations from me.

[FramFramson]

Cary Nord would have been my artist of choice for the characters design.

I have the first couple of years worth of the more recent Conan Comics, including the full run when Cary Nord was illustrating it. He really did an excellent job of things on that series. That was actually one of the very last monthly issue comics I was collecting. You could definitely do worse than emulating that style.

@ Nord: No relation, I suppose? 

[Eithriall]

Sculpts are great,  designs not so much.
I think the Hyborian Age has a Bronze Age feeling,  up to early Dark Ages depending on the culture. But mixing naked barbarians with Renaissance full armours is pretty silly (we already have Warhammer for that).
I can't help but feeling Adrian Smith is digging the old Marvel comics more than staying true to Howard.
 I don't like the armour bits on Valeria, Zaporavo has stolen somehow a Spanish Conquistador armour,  and the pseudo medieval Bossonian archer does not scream Hyborian Age to me either.

The bronze age feeling is only part of the entire "Hyborian Age" created by Howard....His wish was to write novels without the constraints of an historic world (just remember Robert Howard has written historic novels so he's knowing how it's difficult to be historically accurate). So, in the Conan's world coexist medieval lands (Aquilonia, Nemedia), vikings (Asgard and Vanaheim), ancient Greece (Corinthia), Hittite Empire (Koth), ancient Egypt (Stygia), Mesopotamia with Shem, pirates, etc....

Here's a citation from Patrice Louinet (one of the most finest world specialist of Robert E. Howard) :

"The reasons behind the invention of the Hyborian Age were perhaps commercial: Howard had an intense love for history and historical dramas; however, at the same time, he recognized the difficulties and the time-consuming research needed in maintaining historical accuracy. By conceiving a timeless setting – a vanished age – and by carefully choosing names that resembled our history, Howard avoided the problem of historical anachronisms and the need for lengthy exposition.
Although it is not represented in Howard's library, nor alluded to in his papers and correspondence, Patrice Louinet has suggested that Howard's conception of the Hyborian Age may have been heavily influenced by Thomas Bulfinch's The Outline of Mythology (1913), which acted as a catalyst that enabled Howard to "coalesce into a coherent whole his literary aspirations and the strong physical, autobiographical elements underlying the creation of Conan."

(Louinet, Patrice (2002), "Hyborian Genesis Part I", The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian, Del Rey Books)

And about the game itself, here are some words from Patrice Louinet who's working on this game projet (and I apologize for the poor translation) :

"In my initial work I've removed all the non-howardian characters. The characters designed for the game were all imagined by Two-Gun Bob and appear in the novels. As game developers needed a necromancer name, I've looked for one in the first draft of “Hour of the Dragon” to find a real one.
Then for each of these named or anonymous characters (like "Bossonian archer"), I've sent to the illustrators a comprehensive description, that is to say * all * parts written of the hand of Howard describing this character. For more generic characters, and I'll use the example of the Bossonian archer, I've indicated towards which sources and visual inspirations to turn. In this case, as the basic inspiration of the novel came in part from “The White Company” by Conan Doyle, I've directed the illustrator towards NC Wyeth to obtain a visual result that meets my expectations.
By their size, figurines require some gimmicks (spears, necklaces, bracelets, helmets, etc.) to give them their own visual identity, which is not easy for 32mm miniatures. I have a reputation for being a “huge pain in the ass” purist (and I'm proud of it !) and I am very, very happy with everything I've seen so far (with one exception above 50 or more drawings and sculpture projects).
That's really the most approaching possible of the descriptions and the characters created by Howard, taking into account of the constraints imposed by the very nature of a boardgame".

[Arthadan]

Thanks for your answer Eithriall. I can realise how much love and care is put into this game and I appreciate it.

I, for one, prefer brand new designs for a fantasy world rather than exacts copies of real world elemments. In this case, I can't help but seeing a Spanish Conquistador when I look at Zaporavo miniature, which puts me off the Hyborian Age feeling I was expecting to get.

Even if you don't need to be R. E. Howard scholar to find out that Zingara has a strong Spanish influence, there is no link with the Renaissance Age as far as I know (I can be wrong). Zingara was a land of proud knights, but I think the Reconquest period would have provided a better visual reference material, like this El Cid illustration:



I can imagine a warrior like this one existing in the same world as a viking-like warrior, but the tech level between a Renaissance warrior and Dark Ages one is so big that it makes me question the whole coherence of the world and puts me automatically in disbelief.

That said, I do admit is a matter of personal likings and I hope to see many more beautiful sculpts coming.

[Pijlie]

I can imagine a warrior like this one existing in the same world as a viking-like warrior, but the tech level between a Renaissance warrior and Dark Ages one is so big that it makes me question the whole coherence of the world and puts me automatically in disbelief.

That said, I do admit is a matter of personal likings and I hope to see many more beautiful sculpts coming.

Still, even in our world there is a tech level difference between Information digital age (laser guided bombs, glass fibre communications) and near-to-stone age (Amazon Indians).

That aside, I absolutely love the sculpting. The Pict is spot on, Belit is fantastic.

[axabrax]

I agree with what was posted about Howard being a mash up of elements rather than mapping to any historical period. I do agree, however that I always got more of a Bronze Age biblical early Iron Age feel from the books than I did medieval or Renaissance. I really liked the Nord Conan stuff, but from a technical standpoint Adrian Smith is a better artist (at least that's my opinion--Nord's stuff is more cartoon-like where Adrian Smith's stuff is more representational) and he has more experience working directly with miniatures and miniature concepts, so I don't think there could've been a better choice.

[abdul666lw]

Even if you don't need to be R. E. Howard scholar to find out that Zingara has a strong Spanish influence, there is no link with the Renaissance Age as far as I know (I can be wrong).

Actually the clothes and hand weapons of the Zingaran pirates in 'The treasure of Tranicos' / 'The Black Stranger' are *Late* Renaissance (though *without gunpowder*). Thus a Zingaran warrior with a Spanish Conquistador 'look' is consistent with such reference.
The cultures described by Howard are not copycats of historical prototypes - Shem combines almost everything  'Middle Eastern' / 'Arab' / 'Muslim' from Assyria to 19th C. beduins, for instance. Zingara is 'Spanish' but no more homegeneous, time-frame wise. Meaning that miniatures would not be copycats of historical prototypes: for instance for Zingara a Spanish knight from the El Cid period *but with a morion* (the iconic 'Spaniard' helmet in popular culture).

Comics and book covers generally fail abysmally to reflect the written descriptions. In 'Black Colossus' the upper-class minority of Hyborian blood provides to units to the Khorajan host: 'knights' in full armour (one of the very few cases in Conan's setting where the description could be understood as Hundred Years War plate armour) and unarmoured spearmen from the impoverished / ruined families. Now in the comics the knights are protected only by a light helmet and a buckler, while the 'poor spearmen' are covered with mail  
In 'Lair of the white worm' and 'The frost giant's daughter' Conan wears a full suit of mail (booty from the sack of Venarium?) : Frazetta's paintings have him in fur loincloth... One wonders if the artists bothered to *read* the texts they were supposed to illustrate.


Many 'Conan' minis look too much like historical types (Warhammer fashion); a way to have them more 'original' and still fitting with the written descriptions could be to combine elements of armour from different periods. For instance for Aquilonia Howard often refers to 'jaseran': historically a combination of plate and mail. An 'original' Aquilonian knight would wear neither historical 'mail and plate' (from just before the starting of the HYW) nor historical (Turk, Persian) jaseran but for instance Ancient Greek-like 'bell' cuirass, vambraces and greaves over a full suit of mail. Such combinations appear in old book covers for 'Dragonlance' and look quite interesting. In a novella 'Hawks over Shem'?) Black mercenaries combine a spectacular oestrich feathers headgear with 'Saracen' mail shirt in a totally unhistorical, but very good-looking, fashion.
For instance the *level of armour* of the Bossonian longbowman above is accurate (at least for a front rank one -often more heavily armoured- of the regular royal army). In 'The Scarlet Citadel' the Bossonian longbowmen are expicitely depicted as 'heavier-armored' than the Shemite archers in Kothian service 'in their light mail shirts'. Such Shemite archers in the service of a 'Hyborian' kingdom would look like the Roman Eastern auxiliary archers, thus the Bossonians are indeed 'extra heavy infantry' in old WRG parlance. BUT -maybe I'm nitpicking?- the *look of the armour* - of the plate elements, namely- is perhaps too 'historical Western Europe'; would look more 'original' / 'specific' if the plate elements were of different inspiration -Ancient Greece as in Dragonlance illos, Medieval Russian, even 'Easterner'?
Given that most countries in Conan's world are not exact images of a given historical one at a given time but a synthesis of a given cultural / geographical area across some time span, another possibility could be to choose a precise historical prototype for dress and armour, but adding some details (helmet, shield, pieces of armour... for warriors) from a different period, e.g. a Dark Ages helmet or on the opposite a more 'advanced' visored one on a 'Richard the Lion heart' suit of mail. Rather in the same way as iirc Der Kriegspieler Rohirrim were 'simply' Norman 'knights' of Hastings with round shields.

Howard's descriptions are generally succinct and vague: to try and reconstruct the warriors he mentions one has to search for how himself did visualize them, i.e. for his visual sources of inspiration. Now the NOT Conan minis of old (Ral Partha, Garrison, Minifigs... also other 'fantasy' - NOT Tolkien or original-  ranges of the same manufacturers, e.g. the Mythical Earth, Valley of 4 Winds and Aureola Rococo Minifigs) were generally quite good. Specially, they were old enough to *draw inspiration from the same sources as Howard himself*, i.e. the late 19th C. reconstructions known nowadays to be historically inaccurate. For instance such 'Huns':

who were 'iconic' for Genghis Khan's Mongols as well as Attila's Huns until the early 1970 (first Funcken book, Saxtorph's 'Warriors and Weapons of Early Times', Alymer and Rose miniatures...) - have the features, clothes, arms (the odd warscythe...) and armor of Yakuts and other mounted tribesmen of Eastern Siberia as they appear on late 19th C. drawings and photos. While Howard's Aesir and Vanir are (totally unhistorical) 'Wagnerian' Vikings (with winged and horned helmets respectively): just like the 'Saxons' in the original 'Prince Valiant'. In fact I suspect most of Nemedian dress and armour would look very 'Prince Valiant' or Fritz Lang's 'Nibelungen' like (Aquilonia seems slightly more 'advanced', with 'jaseran' i.e. 'mail & plate'; though there is some in the 'Nibelungen': looks 'Poitain' for me). Howard's Conan works were published between Lang's movies and Harold Foster's comic strip.

"Nemedian knights facing a mixed Vanir  / Aeasir warband" ?
(Btw the 1954 'Prince Valiant' movie was visually quite faithful to Foster's work)



"Conan's full suit of armour in Khoraja"? (looks 'oriental' enough for the Kothian / Shemic mixed cultural background; forget the arrows and add a lot of oestrich feathers on the helmet)



"Knight from Poitain"? (they seem to be the heaviest type in the Conan universe)

[abdul666lw]

But mixing naked barbarians with Renaissance full armours is pretty silly (we already have Warhammer for that).

Quite the opposite. Naked 'savages' and Medieval (with some more recent details) full armour both (and everything between) have their place in this setting.
Conan roams from Northern Scandinavia to Equatorial Black Africa, from the Atlantic ocean (with the Pictish Wilderness a bit of North-East America "glued' on France's western shore) to somewhere North-East of Thibet. And in time from New Kingdom Egypt (Stygia, the ziggurats of Shem) to the early days of the Hundred Years War (plate & mail armour, Bossonian  -read Welsh / English- longbowmen), with some details from later dates (the weaponry of the Gundermen is that of Renaissance Swiss, the dress of the Zingaran pirates are Late Renaissance...). Far more potential diversity than in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' or the human cultures of 'The Lord of the Rings' or even 'The Belgariad'. If you include 'Conan of the Isles' you can even add whole Tékumel [+ the Axibalan Empire] (as Mayapan) to the Hyborian setting!

What IS silly is to have barbarians naked *in the snow*: barbarians are NOT that stupid, and Howard wrote nothing like that.


Cimmerians would look more like the Widlings in 'Game of Thrones'.


But, about nudity, what is equally silly is to forget that the taboo on female breasts is a parochial peculiarity of the Abrahamanic faith and the cultures steeped in them. Historically everywhere climate / weather was favourable women went bare breasted just like men before Christianity or Islam  -&/or corresponding 'Western' prejudices-  became locally dominant. Hyborian times are set before 'our' History, thus it's silly to have women wearing bras (à la Raquel Welch in '1 million years BC') where men are content with a loincloth or a penis shaft.
Credible:

Silly:

[thebinmann]

Very interesting

Any idea about launch dates?

[beefcake]

The Cimmerians in the Conan movie dressed very well for the cold. It's only when Conan was taken prisoner that he wore less. Sure he should probably have been a lot hairier than he was as well considering the climate. I wonder if that had a lot of influence on the way barbarians were portrayed or if the movie was based on other images of barbarians. (I have no idea, just thinking this stuff out loud)

[abdul666lw]

Indeed the Cimmerians are far more sensibly dressed in the (1st) movie than in any comics or book cover.
Not that I don't have quibbles about some costumes in the movie. The Vanirs should wear 'Wagnerian Vikings' horned helmets.
The horned helmet of the Cimmerian chief is debatable, being (according to Howard) a Vanir charcateristic; can be a booty but, given that Howard links the Cimmerians to historical Picts - Northern Britons a 'crested' Celtic helmet would be more appropriate.
The Pict scout looks like a historical Pict / Northern Briton, not at all like Howard's Picts i.e. Amerindians of the wooded North-East - though the Wendols of 'The 13th warrior' would provide a good basis for Picts of the Bear Clan.

[Eithriall]

Merci pour tes messages abdul666lw tu as fait de biens meilleures réponses que celles auxquelles je songeais. Il est indéniable que tu es un fin connaisseur de l'oeuvre d'Howard et de ce qu'il a développé en créant "l'Age Hyborien". Mon anglais n'est pas aussi bon.

Thank you for your messages abdul666lw you've made better answers than those of whom I thought. It is undeniable that you are a connoisseur of Howard's work and his "Hyborian Age" creation. My English is not also good.

Kickstarter campaign will start in january 2015.

[thebinmann]

Thanks a lot

[abdul666lw]

Thank you for your messages abdul666lw you've made better answers than those of whom I thought. It is undeniable that you are a connoisseur of Howard's work and his "Hyborian Age" creation. My English is not also good.

(Blushing) I'm reading Conan novels since...well the late "60 (imports, first), Savage Sword & already 'collector' other Marvel comics since "75 and in the "77 - 85 we had a Tony Bath fashion 'Hyboria' wargame campaign (I was a member of the Society of Ancients and in the good old days Tony's campaign was reported in 'Slingshot'; later I exchanged letters -mechanically type-written, can you believe that, youngsters!- with Phil 'WRG' Barker about the inaccuarcies of Carter-Bizar's 'Royal armies of the Hyborian Age'), so I've had plenty of time to think about the appearance of the various warrior types mentioned in Howard's works. To be old have advantages...


To have P. L., editor of the 'purely canonical' versions of the written material, behind the design is extremely reassuring about the 'Howardian accuracy' of the minis  .
Best wishes!