Some miniatures for Song of Blades and Heroes (undead warband for Mordheim)

[Hobgoblin]

Cheers for that Hobgoblin. Yeah, I am thinking Jackal-men could be on the small size. I quite happily use Dark Alliance trolls already but experimenting with their Orcs to be used as Goblins was a bit disappointing.

It appears that the Anubians are quite a bit bigger than humans in 1/72 after all. That's good news for me, as I'll use them as supplementary gnolls behind the Julie Guthrie Ral Partha ones as well as using them as Anubians in Caverns of Thracia. Obviously, jackals are quite different from hyenas (caniform rather than feliform for one thing). But at 1/72 scale, "humanoids with snouts" will do!

[Grumpy Gnome]

Ah that is interesting indeed! Larger works better for me. Thanks for letting me know.

[Chuck1372]

Here's a comparison of the old and new bases. I think the new scheme is a huge improvement, so will be repainting all the bases of my recent HotT elements (it won't take long, and there aren't that many of them). I'll start with the chaos hordes, who are now six elements strong.

Who makes the hobgoblins?

[Hobgoblin]

Who makes the hobgoblins?

These guys?



They're Citadel from the early 80s. Satanic Panic Miniatures do an homage range, though (bottom of this page and onwards):

http://satanicpanic.co.uk/store/4593110926

[Hobgoblin]

What's this rubbish, I hear you cry?

Well, it's an experiment - an attempt to 'paint' a miniature using nothing with pens. The green fellow was done using my daughter's Posca pens (thick nibs only - 3M and 5M) and some micro pens to tidy up.

He's nothing to write home about, obviously - but he was a lot of fun to do, and he actually 'reads' quite nicely on the table. And most importantly, he was ludicrously quick - a matter of minutes.

I'm going to order some of the fine Poscas and see what can be done with those.

[Hobgoblin]

Now bear with me on this one. It's very much work in progress (as you can see). But here's the thing. This took me about five minutes - which is far quicker than if I'd applied the base colours with a brush. I'm going to finish him off with washes and paints. But if he holds up to that, I reckon I've found a way of massively speeding up productivity - particularly with 1/72s like this fellow.

[Elbows]

I'd be more concerned about cost - i.e. how many pens you'd go through.  I think the painted figure looks far better, but speed is speed.

[Pattus Magnus]

The other thing might be whether or not the ink stays put - when I’ve used pens I found they smudged a bit. Definitely needed a spray on coat of varnish.

That said, I do like the orc and Lizardman you coloured in with the pens, they’re vivid and the highlights show up well.

I’m looking forward to seeing future progress!

[Hobgoblin]

I'd be more concerned about cost - i.e. how many pens you'd go through.

Yes, I fear these experiments might result in frequent compensatory purchases to keep my daughter happy! That said, the pens are pretty 'generous' in the way they spread paint around, and a drawing/decorating session with them probably uses up much more than an individual miniature. Each pen costs about the same as a Citadel or Vallejo paint pot.

  I think the painted figure looks far better, but speed is speed.

Oh, yes - no doubt. But there's a couple of points apart from speed. First, these prototypes were done with fat markers (so fat that I couldn't reach into all the crannies because of the bulk of the pen. So I'm hoping for much more control and accuracy with the ultrafine pens. And second, I suspect that rough green orc would actually 'read' better than his better-painted companion over a Zoom game, like our daily D&D sessions.

It's also worth remembering that I used nothing but pens for that orc; I could have neatened him up a lot more with a brush (and may yet).

Here's the 1/72 lizardman after a wash and some details. He's certainly OK for the tabletop, and I think he holds up fine against a conventionally painted equivalent. The painted ones were done in a speed-painting frenzy, but the new guy was much quicker because the base colours and crude highlights took hardly any time at all. By contrast, the base colours for the others took a fair bit of time per figure. So, while I probaby prefer the duller, more naturalistic ones, if I needed a dozen for an RPG encounter, the pens would definitely be the way to go.

Again, I hope I'll be able to get more precision with finer pens, and I could probably do a bit of further neatening on him.

I also quickly 'penned in' a blue one last night. The very bold highlights are to be toned down with contrast paints. We'll see how he turns out ...

The other thing might be whether or not the ink stays put - when I’ve used pens I found they smudged a bit. Definitely needed a spray on coat of varnish.

I think (hope!) the Posca paint will be fine, as it's a fine acrylic. The micron-pen lines definitely need a bit longer to dry before varnishing, but they're fine if left overnight. Fingers crossed!

[Duncan McDane]

If you want my honest opinion, the difference in quality between the pencil colored one and the painted one is massive. Unless you're saving at the very least 1,5 hour a model I wouldn't bother because of your normal output quality. For people who are not great at painting - or don't like it -  it might be a solution, but in that case I'd rather would use dipping, as it is also quick and gives better results. Again, my opinion, don't feel offended as that wasn't my intention, just honest feedback. Like asking Rembrand to paint the fencing, a waste of his time & talent imho.

[Hobgoblin]

If you want my honest opinion, the difference in quality between the pencil colored one and the painted one is massive. Unless you're saving at the very least 1,5 hour a model I wouldn't bother because of your normal output quality.

I think the time saving will be around that mark. Do you mean the orc or the lizardman? I couldn't get a good shot of the lizards side by side (phone camera wouldn't focus!), but in the flesh, I think the 1/72 lizardmen are pretty much the same standard.

For people who are not great at painting - or don't like it -  it might be a solution, but in that case I'd rather would use dipping, as it is also quick and gives better results. Again, my opinion, don't feel offended as that wasn't my intention, just honest feedback.

No offence taken! But remember, these are the equivalent of painting with a huge brush, as I don't have access to fine-nibbed paint pens yet. That should change tomorrow. I've also discovered that some paint-pen companies do lots of subtle natural colours, so there's at least potential for some much more subtle approaches. It's definitely an experiment, but I'm quite interested to see how it plays out.

In the meantime, here's a conventionally painted 1/72 cyclops - one of the new set from Dark Alliance.

[Duncan McDane]

I was referring to the Orc. It looks better on the lizardman but I don't have experience with painting small scale miniatures. Might be the model itself, might be the washes, might be the scale. Will follow this anyway, because it never hurts to discover new things.
Really like that cyclops, you're good with fleshy skintones.

[beefcake]

Love the Cyclops. Has a classic Greek look to it.

[Hobgoblin]

Thanks, guys.

Here's another pen experiment: a 1/72 zombie. He doesn't look like much, but then he is tiny. And he was done in a fraction of the time it would have taken even to base-coat and drybrush him. So I'm counting him as a success. I wasn't looking forward to working through the zombie hordes, but this will speed up the process hugely.

I've also finished off the second lizardman - I'm happy enough with him, given the small scale and the roughness of these figures. Quick tabletop standard is the goal here.

The next test will to be see what can be done when I'm not bludgeoning about with 5mm nibs!

[Hobgoblin]

Been trying out some further pen experiments. These are all WIPs. The flying ape will probably end up as a mixed-media job, as I'll use washes or glazes over his fur and skin once I've finished with the pens. I quite like the rotoscoped, Bakshi-esque appearance, though - suitable for a demon!

My son has spent about 10 minutes on the tyranid so far. The main point here is that a crude but striking warband could be knocked out in an hour or two (and tidied up later with brushes). It's amazing how much time you save through not opening and preparing paint, washing brushes and so on, and at 'tabletop distance', I think this guy would look OK as is, however much he's not ready for his close-up.

But for me, the real revolutionary use of paint pens will be in getting base colours blocked in on 1/72 figures. Putting down the green, brown and metals on this ranger took about two minutes. I'll finish him off with brushes, but the boost to productivity from the pens is remarkable.