The price of a miniature

[N.C.S.E]

That's great if you can get sufficient sales volume without going through retail. Yes, you save money as you don't have to discount, but a very large portion of the market will only buy at stores or shows. At Salute this year, we ran out of 5 popular models. We had loads of people ask for them, and we told them they could order them from the webshop, but most of them said they didn't buy anything mail order, only at shows or stores. It seemed weird to me, but I guess everyone's different.

So if you cut out stores, and really have to attend 20+ trade shows a year instead. Believe me, that's a long way from free.

The fact is, without retail stores and shows, a miniatures range has very little exposure to the customer base. Getting 100% of the sale price doesn't help if you aren't getting any sales...

Wow!

Maybe it's because I'm in Australia or something but mail order is how i get everything. Buying something in a store is a positive luxury.

[Major_Gilbear]

[...]
We had loads of people ask for them, and we told them they could order them from the webshop, but most of them said they didn't buy anything mail order, only at shows or stores. It seemed weird to me, but I guess everyone's different.
[...]

When I look at a number of miniatures webstores, and I look through sad tales of months of no-reply following orders even on this forum, I can't say I necessarily think that's all that strange.

Personally, I won't order from webstores that:

• Look very dated (due to payment security reasons).

• That won't show proper-sized photos of their miniatures (decent-sized, both painted and unpainted, and a shot of components if relevant). I mean, if you can't be bothered to show me what you have for sale, why should I care enough to buy from you?

• That won't explain up-front what shipping charges to expect without getting to the last stage of placing an order first. This is just time-wasting, pure and simple.

I'm also put off by very limited ranges or no signs of recent (as in, the last year or so) activity, and also by webstores that make it impossible to navigate or add purchases easily (for example sites which jump you back to the front page after every item you add to the basket are infuriating to use).

So yeah, people not wanting to buy miniatures online? Not that surprising to me when I consider what I've seen over the years.

That said, I do in fact order nearly all my miniatures online.

[Mr. Peabody]

That's great if you can get sufficient sales volume without going through retail. Yes, you save money as you don't have to discount, but a very large portion of the market will only buy at stores or shows.

So this begs the question; what portion of our hobby is carried by shows in the UK and Europe?  

I think of the hobby as being international, but I'm happy to accept that my perspective may be skewed by the minority of big players that I don't buy from. GW, Warlord, Privateer, Reaper.

I can't help but feel that prices have sky-rocketed recently. £7 and $10 per figure, even for multi-pack purchases are non-starters for me. But if the bulk of business for the majority of producers is conducted at shows, then Canada and the US may not be viable or attractive markets especially given the arcane requirement to work via distributors instead of directly with retailers.

Barring product from Pulp Miniatures and RAFM, every mini I own comes from either the UK or the US and was bought online. Exposure to those minis was via forums like this one. Mostly this one.

My last purchases were for conversion bits from Victoria miniatures in Australia and locally produced miniatures from Interloper. It would be nice to think the rising price of minis will see more interesting product produced in North America or other markets!

TLDR:
Grumpy Peabody does think prices are getting too high but still wants his minis.
He suspects a large portion of our hobby survives via a UK / European network of highly evolved farmer's markets. No disrespect intended as that format implies quality and craftsmanship.
North America is a difficult market to penetrate especially given the apparently silly requirement to work through distributors.

[TheBlackCrane]

I suppose one way to look at it, and I may be either a. repeating something already said or b. talking nonsense here, is to consider the cost of the miniature versus the amount of entertainment one gets from it, as it were.

I mean, I'm a slow painter, but I enjoy painting, so if it takes me say 2 hours total to paint up a miniature costing £4, then for that £4 I've had 2 hours of enjoyment from painting it, then add however long I use it for in games etc. etc., it actually works out as pretty reasonable if compared with say, going to see a film which lasts 2 hours an costs me £8 for a ticket.

Ok that's a bit of a false argument as possibly can't compare the one with the other, and the point is that regardless of long-term use the cost has to be forked out in one go so it may be quite expensive, but in general we probably get quite a lot of return on the money spent up front. As has already been said, it's entirely dependent on what you're happy to spend. (Another advantage of being a slow painter, I don't need to buy many figures to last me quite some time!)

[Elbows]

Like others, my maximum range depends on the miniature.  I've been paying $5-6 a figure to snag up some old 2nd edition Warhammer figures...because they're a bit more rare and I obviously can't buy them at retail.  Thus, I'm willing to fork over a bit more.

I will pay more for metal.  I will avoid resin at all costs for anything other than small terrain bits.  For large boxes/units I'm fine with multipart plastics, particularly for the cost.

While I prefer, when possible, to buy products as new...I will buy them wherever I can find them cheapest.  I won't buy re-casts or knock-offs etc., but like many people I have a small budget.  I like supporting companies as well as I can, but if a product is 30% cheaper and has free shipping at a retailer...I'll go there instead of the manufacturer.

The OP brings up Otherworld Miniatures.  They're a good example.  I've built quite the dungeoneering collection and part of that included some Otherworld Miniatures. They are so brilliantly sculpted that I'd have done the entire project in Otherworld Miniatures if I were made of gold or peed silver.

I struggled with my Otherworld purchase.  It was approximately $95 USD.  I picked it up at a show (I had decided to give myself $100 to freely spend and oddly there wasn't much else I was interested in).  I thought to myself, $95 for 10 miniatures? Yikes.  When I bought the henchmen and hireling box, I was blown away when I opened it.  Nice cover art around a zippered and printed soft-foam carrying case with red liner, ten individually packaged miniatures in baggies with plastic slotta bases and sculpted pewter bases provided --- these even included a sheet of stick-on felt liners to apply to the bottom of the bases!.   Overall it was a phenomenal package.  Beautifully done, perfect miniatures etc.  However I couldn't help but think I'd have rather paid $80 and ditched the case, the spare bases, the felt pads, etc.

It just depends on the figure and the perceived value. 

[Dave Knight]

Being involved in wargames as a business is a lifestyle choice for the vast majority rather than a money making opportunity

[Captain Blood]

I've never recovered from Minifigs going up from 8p to 9p, the same price as Hinchliffe.
(Hinchliffe obviously went up to 10p shortly after). That's where the rot set in...  

I've gone over almost entirely to plastic now, mainly because (for the most part) the figures are better. So I typically pay around 50p a figure.
For the right metal figure - one I REALLY REALLY wanted - I guess I'd pay up to a fiver. Typically, a couple of quid would be my max though.

Perry packs of six metal figures for seven quid seem remarkably good value at just over a pound a figure. But then, in fairness, they don't have sculptors to pay - although no doubt their own time is worth money.

But I do think that if so many manufacturers, particularly of historical figures, can still manage to produce a 28mm metal figure for somewhere between a pound or two (or even three), then there's not really much excuse for pricing individual figures at £6, £8 or £10+

I note it is almost exclusively fantasy and sci-fi miniatures that command these sorts of prices.
Partly that's because people raised from childhood in the Games Workshop tradition just assume silly prices are normal (they're not).
Partly it's an exercise in premium pricing based on snobbery in which purchasers are complicit ('I must be getting something really good because it's so expensive')
And partly it's because, I presume, many fantasy and sci-fi figures are so niche (despite the massive popularity of fantasy and sci-fi genres) that they don't sell very many of them. So the cost per unit is disproportionately high.

But if people are prepared to pay those prices, then clearly there's a market. Rather like antiques, something is worth whatever someone is happy enough (or foolish enough) to pay for it. One man's ludicrous rip-off is another man's great value for money... Slightly depends how well-off you are too I suspect.

[Lovejoy]

But I do think that if so many manufacturers, particularly of historical figures, can still manage to produce a 28mm metal figure for somewhere between a pound or two (or even three), then there's not really much excuse for pricing individual figures at £6, £8 or £10+

I note it is almost exclusively fantasy and sci-fi miniatures that command these sorts of prices.

Partly that's because people raised from childhood in the Games Workshop tradition just assume silly prices are normal (they're not).
Partly it's an exercise in premium pricing based on snobbery in which purchasers are complicit ('I must be getting something really good because it's so expensive')
And partly it's because, I presume, many fantasy and sci-fi figures are so niche (despite the massive popularity of fantasy and sci-fi genres) that they don't sell very many of them. So the cost per unit is disproportionately high.

I don't really agree with that to be honest...
5 reasons why (IMHO) historicals are generally cheaper:
1. There are a lot of basic troops that can be converted quickly from dollies, saving sculpting time.
2. They are often sold in large numbers, rather than as individual minis, thus benefiting from economies of scale.
3. A lot of historical manufacturers do it as a hobby; they often operate around break-even, funding themselves with a day job or a pension.
4. Historicals tend to be lighter and simpler, often around half the metal, of a sci/fant model, thus cheaper to mould and cast.
5. Historicals are typically just not as well sculpted as decent sci/fant stuff. There are of course exceptions, but that's the general rule. Most of the freelance sculptors I know charge around double for sci/fant stuff than they do for historical sculpting, because higher standards are expected.

It's largely down to the character/skirmish nature of most sci/fant stuff, versus the mass troop block style of most historicals.

[Kommando_J]

''The OP brings up Otherworld Miniatures.  They're a good example.  I've built quite the dungeoneering collection and part of that included some Otherworld Miniatures. They are so brilliantly sculpted that I'd have done the entire project in Otherworld Miniatures if I were made of gold or peed silver.''

Indeed, despite the quality the prices are a barrier or i'd be rolling in them as they fit in very well with old-school citadel stuff.

The character models are just on the cusp at £5.00...it's the henchmen in packs of three for £11 that made me start to balk, it'd be GW levels to put together even a small warband for Frostgrave.

up to £9.99   - £4.50
£10.00 - £24.99 -   £6.00
£25.00 - £49.99 -   £7.50
£50.00 - £100.00   - £10.00
over £100.00 - £12.50

Those are the postage costs which are fixed for everywhere...great for Aussies prohibitive to me, especially as they are doing the opposite of other companies that make postage cheaper, i'd argue though that while otherworlds packaging is excessive I d like getting leaflets in box sets.


I'd agree with other people in that i'll pay more for a rare/sought after mini.

In regards to the online debate i'd say that the majority of miniature buyers are older men, these days GW isn't the effective gate way drug it used to be, videogames are cheaper.

[6milPhil]

I've never recovered from Minifigs going up from 8p to 9p, the same price as Hinchliffe.
(Hinchliffe obviously went up to 10p shortly after). That's where the rot set in...  

I recall similar when H&R put their German motorbike and sidecar up to 3p each... they were tuppence ha'penny! 

[eilif]

What to pay.  Of course it depends... 

-Usually I pay 1-3 bucks for metal miniatures of the troop variety as I buy alot of used figs.  The majority of my figs are bought in lots for a buck or two a piece.

-For Skirmish game figs I'll shoot for the same or up to 4-5 bucks a fig such as the RAFM Airship Pirates kickstarter or my Necromunda collection

-For a particularly interesting project, I'll spend 6-7 bucks such as for the Goodbeast figs from Otherworld minis.

-On occasion I've paid up to $10 for a particular man-sized character or unique figure that I really want, but this is extremely rare.

[Paddy649]

I think the real question is about the cost of ownership of a miniature and how that cost is divided up.  Lets say a figure costs £4, but painting it takes a minimum of an hour.  Well even at the living wage that means painting it costs £7.20.  Add to that the cost of paint, brushes and basing and you'll be at £8.  Then think about how much to costs to store and transport that figure. So the "metal" or "plastic" cost of a figure is less than a third of the total BUT for about £12 you now own a well painted model that is yours for a lifetime.

The next question really is about whether we want a vibrant hobby, which pays people appropriately for their valuable time and considerable skill to make phenomenally beautiful models for us to collect, paint and wargame with or not.  The talented modellers we need in this hobby aren't going to do this for free, they have got families and bills to pay too.  Hence, it is in our interests for them to receive reasonable recompense for their considerable talent.  If we look at the modelling process and the production process, the price of raw materials and transport etc. then I think that even at £4 per figure then that means that most people in our hobby are not on exorbitant salaries.  That said  I consider that some more commercial companies do push it too far - but I haven't ever knowingly bought a model from the evil empire for that exact reason.

Next point is what you actually get for £4 these days....not even a pint of beer in London....and you'll need a few of those to add up to a night out.  Actually for £4 you probably can't even buy a burger and chips.  Even a sandwich meal deal is £3 minimum while a mass produces LEGO mini-figure will probably set you back £2.50.  All of an sudden £4 for a bespoke piece of art looks good value.

Last point is that if £4 is too rich in 28mm then in 15mm the same quality of figure is about 75p and you can get some lovely stuff in 15mm these days.  Half the size, a quarter the price and a tenth the storage problem.

Just my thoughts.

[Conquistador]

Being the Moldy Oldie that I am I do remember when fantasy foot figures went from 25 cents to 50 cents per figure bought singly.  Double that for horse and rider.   

I work with a advantage/disadvantage in that most of my 25mm armies are 90+% complete but filling the gaps requires Classicminiatures.net or EvilBay - though the Iron Wind Metals Chaos Wars reboot KS (2 so far) is helping.   

Also all my new projects have been in 15mm, 3mm, or the quirky project in 6mm which makes cost more palatable to my 19th Century "sense of cost."   

It also helps that when I started collecting metal miniatures in the 1970s I made much less as a lower grade enlisted person than I make as a professional now by at least 5 times (almost 6) so costs are seen as less stressful in relative terms given that factor.   

Still...

I prefer my 25mm figures to stay below $5 per figure when they (Der Kriegspieler, 1970s Ral Partha, certain other selected lines) are available - even trying to keep the cost lower.

Other than "gap fill" and the recent run on KS - oh, and the Reaper Mouslings too - I pretty much buy from Khurasan, Rebel Minis, and Splintered light and sometimes O. O. 3mm stuff other than aerial.  I do try and buy "something" at LGSs when I play games there but 90% of my buying is online from proven companies as mentioned earlier.  Rarely do I find something worthwhile to buy at a local or regional convention. 

[nic-e]

Have you seen the costs of casting metal recently? It's not cheap! especially when you consider that if you want to avoid giving your customer lead poisoning you really need to get it from a good (pricey) supplier, not bulk buy it off ebay from china. Likewise with good resin and mould making material.

The stuff needed to produce metal/resin miniatures is expensive. unlike plastic you can't just have one mould and reuse it a thousand times, its a continuous ongoing cost. When you weigh up the cost of actually producing a figure for sale, not just the sculpting but the casting,material,labour ect, against the possibly small demand for the product, it's pretty easy to see why small suppliers might charge a bit more.
 
I think it may be asking a bit too much to have small companies producing high quality figures and then also ask them to sell them for almost no profit.


(of course we could melt down all those old 50p miniatures you all miss and hold dear in your collections.then you could get new figures cheaper 

[TWD]

I do object to a number of pricing practices from many companies.though. Here are a few.

1) packaging. You're charging me for cardboard plastic art work graphic design etc that I'm just going to discard

2) multiples. You decide to sell things in multiples rather than ones. I very very often don't want the same numbers you think I do. You argue multiples makes it cheaper because you don't have to package singles... I refer you to the cause of the problem in item 1



5) don't make me pay for how you run your business. I want to buy figures. I have no interest in your painting competition, the several hundred stores you keep open and the thousands of "helpful" staff. You're making me pay for those things in your product pricing and I'm not interested in them.

I wonder, do you apply these rules to other retail purchases you make, or just wargames figures?

Unless you're buying your cornflakes in plain plastic bags, or your washing powder lose from a tub then you're presumably happy to pay for coloured packaging on other items that you only discard.

It's fairly common practice for retailers to offer say tins of beans or cans of coke as multiples, or do BOGOF, or 3 for 2 offers - I think multiples in blisters are the same thing, aren't they?

The only high street retailer I can think of that doesn't have a "helpful staff" model is Argos so again, unless you only shop there I'd suggest you're happy to put up with (and pay for) these things in other situations.

I'm genuinely curious why some people are happy to denigrate practices in the wargaming world that are commonplace in all other aspects of our retail dominated culture.

These things are just forms of marketing. Ways of persuading you to buy product A at the expense of product B - or as well as. We all know the game and Wargames manufacturers have to play it as much as any other retailer or they go out of business.