The Thaw of '46

[Wyrmalla]

Mine's looking the same right now, bar that flat armour on the underside of the front. I'm keeping the extra armour on the turret as well, but it does look a bit out of place without adding it onto the sides as well (but then that looks weird, so I'll probably do what Queeg and this guy did and just leave on the supports). I can't see the turret copula on that one, but I'm using the Panther one on mine.

Not sure about the gun though. An upgraded one seems like the way to go. Queeg changed the full front section of the turret to accommodate his, though oddly most people just stick on a long barrel onto their's?

I just picked up the Bolt Action rules. Still to finish reading them, but those'll give me an idea of what I need to make. I think my club play's 750pt games (I'dve thought it'd be 1000), so I'll see how little I can squeeze into that points bracket. A Panther an 5 guys with ARs maybe...

[Predatorpt]

He just posted a better pic of the Pz IV. Hope it helps you

[Wyrmalla]

Aye that's looking just like what I'd be doing, bar the change in armour. I'm not sure if I'll copy Queeg's turret design or whether the mountings for the side armour are asking to get broken though. I can see they had a similar issue with the machine gun and the messy glacis angle. Hopefully that order I placed with Heer 46 might show up some time this month so I can get my infrared sights and turrets... ¬¬

That's pretty nice look now it has painted added. Those weird turrets still look dumb to me without changing the hulls as well though (I'd add a big power pack with capacitors to the back myself).

750 pts is where we're starting at my club. That should be enough to cover a Panther, but I may use the Panzer Iv in regular games till I hit 1000pts. That hopefully will be enough for a few Grenadier squads + Katzchens. Oddly enough when I used to play large games (I usually stick to skirmish level) I was more into massed lines of static infantry, or (in 40K) the stab them in the face with a chainsaw approach. ...Maybe Konflikt 47' might suit the later tactic better?

Apparently the Ostfront rulebook for BA has rules for some kit like Krummlaufs? May pick that up just for the sake of having access to those (even if I could guess at the rules myself...).

[FramFramson]

@FramFramson

Aww, but the Puma turret looks so piddly on the Panther hull.  



But aye, practically speaking, I don't see the point. The Leopard was cancelled because the Panther hull made it too much of a target. As a late war idea, fair enough, but I don't see how it'd be practical (why use the Panther chassis instead of a smaller obsolete one?). Heh, not to go off on one on you though.

Well it wasn't my idea at least - blame the Wehrmacht's armour design B team!

[Wyrmalla]

How are these for Bolt Action Katzchen rules? I've zero expierence with the game bar cross referencing existing rules. Yeah, I know I'm missing syntax from all that German.

Katzchen APC

Cost: 90pts (Inexperienced). 110pts (Regular), 130pts (Veteran)
Weapons: 1 pintle-mounted MMG covering the forward arc
Damage Value: 8+ (Light Tank)
Transport: Up to 8 men
Tow: Light or medium howitzers; light, medium or heavy anti-tank gun; light or heavy anti-tank guns
Options:
* May add on additional pintle-mounted MMG covering the rear arc for +15 pts.
* May exchange forward-firing MMG for Panzerbuchse 41 for +40pts (Katzchen purchased on behalf of Pioneer units only)
* May remove the open topped rule for free. Enclosed Katzchen lose any MMG they are armed with.
Special Rules:
* Open-topped

So, thoughts? Is the armour value right; should it be 9+ (like the late-war Panzers its based on)? That'd take it into Ram Kangaroo territory rules wise (a much larger vehicle). What about points (which are arbitrary)? It'd be easy enough to add a light anti-tank gun or stuff like infra-red sights to those too I guess. That Panzerbuchse 41 is arbitrary as well, as that's just nicked from the Hanomag rules (it'd be a pretty cramped in there with one, but the Hanomag rules don't impede troop capacity when selecting one).
 

[Predatorpt]

They look good to me. If you want, I can ask for the opinion of the guys at the official K47 Facebook page. Or the Weird War group.

[Rich H]

Looks good, the only bits I'd question is the closed top option. 
It's a very powerful thing 8+ closed top and transport cap.

[Wyrmalla]

8+ is a bit high, I'd only considered it because the late war Panzers on that chassis have the option. The Hetzer however had the 7+ armour, so that seems more appropriate. The closed top option could be ditched as well, but one was prototyped, so I thought it may as well be an option (though I did miss out noting you can't take a Panzerbuchse 41 with that as well).

Oh, and the BA transport capacity rules are weird. The 8 men capacity is the troops and the crew, as per the Hanomag's 12 man capacity. However... The BA rules state a transport can drive away without carrying any troops. Apparently in the BA world transports are an early prototype of KITT from Knight Rider.

Aye, I had a swatch that the K47 page yesterday. I prefer to stick to forums though as text posts there can get a bit spammy if you want to go on for more than a paragraph.

Looking at the transport rules I don't explicitly see anything regarding tank assaults and dismounting infantry. Reading it though I'd take the rules as you can tank assault, then dismount (as long as the vehicle doesn't run) the troops, and then being that they need to either advance or run, you could then charge with the riders (seeing as the only enemy remaining wouldn't be engaged in combat with the tank, until they elect to charge in their own phase).

[Rich H]

It's only 8+ and closed top that creates the problem, it's just a bit good that's all.  Might need to bump the points a bit more.
It's not significantly more than a hanomag. 
How about enhanced frontal armour (or vulnerable sides)?  Gives a bit better armour.  Sort of a halfway house.  Or 7+ armoured all round? 

It would be a shame not to include the closed top option.  Did it lose the guns or could you make them pintle mounts (Which to fire makes you open topped for a turn)

[Wyrmalla]

7+ armour seems more appropriate to me personally. I wouldn’t bother with any sloped armour rules, as IIRC those aren’t included with all the German vehicles which have sloped armour, as does the model already have higher armour than most transports. Addon armour may be an option, though the Hanomag doesn’t have that option, and the rules are already a bit packed as they are.

I was going no mounts with the closed top as the prototype which had the roof covered anywhere where one could be mounted. The MMG could be left on, but only by changing the “real” design by adding a top hatch (which I suppose would have been the plausible next step from the prototype, but most people when making there’s miss one out from what I’ve seen).

As for points, its sitting between the Hanomag and the Kangaroo right now. I’ve no experience with these (maybe I should stick some random digits at the end…), but I was erring towards the Hanomag due to the armour decrease and smaller transport capacity (8 men is still a decent sized squad though).

Heh, it'll be fun working out how much the Panther APC should cost... Somewhere between the Hanomag, Panther and Puma rules.

[Wyrmalla]

Right, a query here as I move towards making models for a practical list in Bolt Action.

Riflemen. I'll be including some, despite my stance (and the German military's wishful thinking) that the Stg-44 would be the service rifle of the Heer by 1946 (and assuming that things went better in the factories to up ammunition production so that wide scale use was viable). Before the Stg-44 was issued properly, Hitler was dead set against using it for anything bar a replacement for the MP-40. Rather instead he wanted everyman to be armed with a rifle and a scope.

So... two squads of guys with scoped Gewehr 43s wouldn't look dumb would they (Gewehr 43's as those were later production that the Kar-98ks and based on the Soviet SKS)? Possibly wishful thinking that I have that many scoped rifles, but those Wargames Factory sprues had a good few (and two squads of guys is only 12 guns, plus I could mix in some captured Soviet ones).

Considering I'm jumping into a timeline which diverges early in the war there's the leeway to say things may have gone less catastrophically for the Germans.

The planned 1000 pts list is:
1st Lieutenant (so far planned to be armed with a slung rifle and wearing some sort of winter coat)
2 x 8 men Veteran Grenadier squads with Stg-44s + LMG + 1x Panzerfaust (vets so they can take all Stgs ...practically speaking that's who they were supposed to be issued, not one or two per squad)
1x 8 man Veteran Grenadier squad with MP-40s + flame thrower
2x 8 men Grenadier squads with Gewehr 43s + LMG + 1x Panzer Faust
1 x Panzer Iv
 + possibly an Opel Blitz (I want that tracked Rubicon one that's coming out) or Katzchen if there's the points

Which is to say that's a bad list... In other words though, all those cool tanks are a bit expensive for the average game I think (though an APC rush I suppose would do for specific scenarios). Saying that I'm not sure how Konflikt 47' armies differ, I assume they just replace the tanks with walkers (a shame that game didn't include any proper APCs which I'm aware of).

[Predatorpt]

I've run your list by the K47 Easy Army creator and it gave me 1028 points. The addition of the LMG in all the squads creates a problem in terms of firepower - since it's a 2 team weapon you'll lose one shooter (who becomes a loader). In the case of the squad with the MP-40, the maximum you can get is 7 guys out of 8 (6 soldiers, plus the NCO) and if you add the LMG, once again you loose a shooter.

My American list is similar in points (1018) but I squeezed some vehicles in them:

1x Veteran First Lieutnant + 1 soldier with BAR - 103 points
1x Veteran Heavy Infantry Squad (5 guys with power armor) - 105
2x Veteran Infantry Squad (6 guys each - NCO with submachine gun; 2 with BAR; 3 with rifles) - 91 points each
2x Regular Infantry Squad (6 guys each - NCO with submachine gun; 2 with BAR; 3 with rifles) - 73 points each
.30 Medium Machine Gun Veteran Team - 65 points
M8 Greyhound Armoured Car (Veteran) - 157 points
M4A9 Sherman-T medium tank (Regular) - 210 points
Jeep (Veteran) - 50 points

Taking that in account, I've messed a bit with your list

Dropping a squad and reducing the number of soldiers to 7 (6 men plus NCO) you can squeeze a Maultier half-track into there and also a Hanomag (in the place of the Katzchen) for 1022 points.

[Wyrmalla]

The 8 men squads are just because that’s the size of the Katzchen. 7 men is what I originally planned, then I made a few extra Panzerfaust models and that upped it to 8.

The cost of the soldiers is also more than is to be expected due to the number of Assault Rifles and that they’re vets (it’s a bit arbitrary that non-vets can’t have all ARs, but that’s for balancing I guess).

As for vehicles. Yes, I’ll need to rewrite that list once I’ve actually experienced the game, I wrote that one based on what I was using in Warhammer games way back when. Personally I’m not actually that into APCs, I just like the look of them. I’d rather play a list of massed infantry with a small amount of armour and plenty of gun teams (or rather a core of Chaos Space marines with renegade guard and dreadnoughts for support). 

[Wyrmalla]

Painting some vehicles tonight after some delays (mostly reworking the Panzer IV's hull), but meanwhile I'm after this guy ("One Man Army"):



He seems to be sold out on the AE-WWII website, and I haven't managed to find him reputably anywhere else. Anyone have any clues? I want him to go along with the unit of Warlord SS with Infra-red scopes.

[Ballardian]

I'm afraid AEWWII minis are a pain in the proverbial to get hold of (I once waited four months for Wayland to fulfill an order for some) - you best bet is ask the manufacturers (now Blackball Games) to email you when they're back in stock (even Ebay comes up blank).
 Alternately you could post on Bazaar Of Obscurities, there may be someone who's got one they're prepared to part with.