14th century English army info. needed

[Necroplayer]

  I've decided to try my hand at medieval warfare and am looking for some information. We'll be using Osprey's "Lion Rampant" rules and I am leaning toward the English army in the time of Edward III. What I am after is information on what armour style(s), weapons, shield "graffiti ?", etc. would be appropriate for this time period. Any direction on this would be great!

  Thanks!
 

[Mithridates1]

A great source of information on the period is the Wargames Research Group's Armies and Enemies of the Middle Ages, Part 1.  This covers Western Armies and should have plenty of information for you to make a start.

Available on line:

https://www.scribd.com/document/233753639/Ian-Heath-Armies-Of-The-Middle-Ages-1-Wargames-Research-Group

I am sure Osprey will also have publications relevant to your quest.  Suggest you check out the WRG publication as a beginning.

[Charlie_]

I am sure Osprey will also have publications relevant to your quest.  Suggest you check out the WRG publication as a beginning.

Indeed, I'd really recommend their Campaign Series.

The relevant ones here for Edward III are...

Crécy 1346
https://ospreypublishing.com/crecy-1346-pb

Poitiers 1356
https://ospreypublishing.com/poitiers-1356-pb

They are really good with excellent Graham Turner art.

Regarding plate armour, I think by the time of Poitiers (entering the latter half of the century) full plate armour was becoming the thing.... though it wasn't quite as 'complete' as it would be by the 15th century, the wealthiest knights certainly would have plate defences on all parts of the body. But I might be wrong!

Here's a painting from the Crécy book. What I really like about it is the range of armour styles the different knights are sporting. You can kind of judge their wealth by what they are wearing!

[Necroplayer]

  Thanks all for the replies and wonderful information!

[Cubs]

If you're planning on buying an Ospreys title (or most other things) my recommendation would be to try Books Etc first. they really are insanely cheap sometimes.

For example -

http://www.booksetc.co.uk/books/view/-9781855329669

[westwaller]

although you might want to think how soon you want your books from Booksetc though, I am still waiting for mine to arrive 17 days after I ordered them...

I don't blame Cubs though.

[Charlie_]

although you might want to think how soon you want your books from Booksetc though, I am still waiting for mine to arrive 17 days after I ordered them...

I don't blame Cubs though.

Me too!!!! It's coming up to a month for me, and I've kind of given up. Admittedly I didn't really look into how the site worked before I hastily ordered 3 osprey titles.... But looking back at it now, it is a bit odd. In the FAQs, it says if your books don't arrive it's up to the buyer to sort out it out with the seller. It says you contact them through the 'mailbox', just enter their user name. But I can't for the life of me find who the user was I bought the books from? Doesn't give that info anywhere.
Not that it really helps me, but it does also seem that the seller doesn't get paid until I click 'books received'.

[westwaller]

Ah...that's not good @Charlie. I ordered mine from them through Amazon Market Place and it is just a coincidence that I ended up using them, rather than on recommendation, as they had what I wanted at a 'reasonable' price. Mind you they've charged £5.60 post for the privilege of slack dispatch...

I hope you get your books soon.

[Cubs]

I don't blame Cubs though.

Mwahahaha! The fools, they trusted me!

I mean, sorry to hear that guys. I have heard you sometimes wait a while for books from them, but I've never waited more than a week! Luck of the draw I guess and that explains where the savings come from I suppose.

[Arlequín]

I don't know about other companies, but I believe I'm correct in thinking that if you order and pay via Amazon, then Amazon will happily deal with the issue and/or refund what was paid (strictly speaking you paid Amazon to procure a service on your behalf, so they are your 'agent').

Certainly Amazon wields a bigger stick than a solitary consumer too. 

[Harry Faversham]

  I've dealt with 'em, never again... a very underwhelming experience! 

[sukhe_bator]

Black Tree Design do some early 100 years war that are pretty good. Some of the earlier Brettonians were based around that period of armour etc.

[Khurasan Miniatures]

Actually by this period (Crecy) it would have been very unusual to find a man at arms entirely in chainmail. A good eighty years before that Central European men-at-arms had already begun to introduce the coat-of-plates, a sort of short surcoat of leather with steel plates attached to it. The Germans who wore this at Benevento in 1266 had a major advantage over the French knights until they were overwhelmed by fatigue and enemy numbers. (It took two batailles of French to defeat them -- the second Sicilian bataille was much too far behind the Germans to support them.)

Solid protection continued to be added until by the time of Crecy the amount of the body protected by chainmail only (at least, in an English man-at-arm's full harness) would have been pretty limited. Coat of plates, plate arm harness, probably some form of leg harness, helmet which may have had some form of visor if it was a bascinet (but not yet the hounskull) or perhaps just a great helm.  By Crecy they were wearing the "short surcoat" and the cyclas was being phased out. The short surcoat was short all around and came to about mid thigh.

[Khurasan Miniatures]

Basically this, although plate leg harness would have been pretty common by this period too.  His short surcoat looks a bit like a sleeveless tunic, doesn't it?



Some guys would have worn a surcoat that was like this except with a tail in the back (longer in the back than the front) which was called a cyclas.  That was a bit old fashioned by Crecy.  Even fewer would have worn a long surcoat like those used in the 13th century, but was pretty anachronistic by this period.  Apparently Sir John Chandos was wearing such a long surcoat when he was killed in 1369!  So at least some older men were still wearing it. Chandos was killed on New Year's Eve so maybe it was worn for warmth, in the winter.

The little round plates on his shoulders were meant to protect the armpits which were "only" protected by chainmail.  There's a story of the Battle of Benevento that the French could not hurt the Germans because of their coat of plates armour.  The Germans advanced in close order, using their big swords-of-war to hack down everything in their path, impervious to wounds, rather like a medieval King Tiger tank.  :-D  But then the French discovered that they could harm the Germans when they swung their big swords up -- by stabbing them in the armpits.  To be honest it doesn't pass the straight-face test that a bataille of 1,200 men could be defeated in that way, but it's an entertaining story anyway....