A fully grown Spanish Tercio

[Bushbaby]

So arranging my landsknechts in a tercio (actually "spanish square") formation could be historically correct?

[DintheDin]

Cool picture - its making me want to get out my figures and recreate this. A bit late now, but might try this tomorrow night before gaming.

I'm really happy that this gave you an impulse, this is what we all need in our game!
If you have many tercios, arranging them in a checkerboard formation will give you the right feeling of the period.

In the picture below, another form of tercio (called "later tercio" according to FOG-R rules), a central pike block with two "wings" of musketeers.

[DintheDin]

So arranging my landsknechts in a tercio (actually "spanish square") formation could be historically correct?

As landsknechts had not adopted the -new for the era- tercio formation, I'm afraid that the answer is no.
You may arrange your landsknecht pikemen (halberdiers etc close quarter weapons) in a huge pike block and if you have landsknecht shooters, they may be arranged as a (thin) line of skirmishers in front of them, or in their flanks, always having in mind that they are separate battle groups, operating independently.

The Landsknechts way of fighting, who were mainly of German origin was different from the fighting concept of the tercio men, the first of them being of Spanish origin. Historically, when the Tercio reputation started to rise, the Landsknecht reputation started to fall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknecht

The number of Landsknechts employed as shooters, was always too small in relation to the Landsknechts pikemen.
An eighth and later to about one quarter.
In the contrary, the ratio of tercio arquebusiers/musketeers were at least one third of the tercio pikemen.
And as the effectiveness of the tercio was growing, so was growing the ratio of the arquebusiers/musketeers.

[fred]

As landsknechts had not adopted the -new for the era- tercio formation, I'm afraid that the answer is no.

Aah!

Unfortunately my figures are Landsknechts era. But I'm going for it any way!

In the contrary, the ratio of tercio arquebusiers/musketeers were at least one third of the tercio pikemen.
And as the effectiveness of the tercio was growing, so was growing the ratio of the arquebusiers/musketeers.

This makes me think I have under-done the number of pikemen. I have 8 shooters to 6 pike. So probably need more pike, though looking at the both the large woodcut, and the representation using o's and p's there seem to more shooters than pike?




So here we go - my best representation of the woodcut of four terico.

And a more overhead shot


I couldn't quite make out the labels next to the different cavalry, so have gone with Gendarmes, Lancers and Reitters (not least because I have lots of these). The pike are backed up by halberdiers, again due to figures. And the shooters are a mix of arquebsiers and crossbows.

I've now just spotted cannon on the bottom left of the woodcut - I could have had those in my layout too!!

[DintheDin]

Aah!

Unfortunately my figures are Landsknechts era. But I'm going for it any way!

This makes me think I have under-done the number of pikemen. I have 8 shooters to 6 pike. So probably need more pike, though looking at the both the large woodcut, and the representation using o's and p's there seem to more shooters than pike?

Amazing! What a majestic representation of the woodcut! I really appreciate your disposition to sit down and arrange all this splendid-looking spectacle! No, you don't need more pikemen. If you run through my previous replies, you may find some interesting links in which it is described how the ratio of shot was augmenting in relation to the pikes as the firearms were evolving, until the tactics reached the Dutch pike/shot formation where the pike/shot ratio became 1 to 2.  

[DintheDin]

I couldn't quite make out the labels next to the different cavalry, so have gone with Gendarmes, Lancers and Reitters (not least because I have lots of these). The pike are backed up by halberdiers, again due to figures. And the shooters are a mix of arquebsiers and crossbows.

I've now just spotted cannon on the bottom left of the woodcut - I could have had those in my layout too!!
[/quote]

The labels of the cavalry read: Harquebusiers, Lancers, Cuirassiers the former being nearer the tercio.
More than the caracole, the most dreaded enemy of a closely packed body of men forming a tercio was the cannon.
If they had a clear field of fire, they could literally cut pathways...

Congrats again for your colorful army collection and for your patience to set-up with most possible accuracy the old woodcut!
Having a godlike view of such a massive army is one of the most joyful moments in our hobby!

P.S. Next time, put the cannon too!

  

[fred]

Amazing! What a majestic representation of the woodcut! I really appreciate your disposition to sit down and arrange all this splendid-looking spectacle!

Thank you very much!

It was no trouble at all, I needed a good number of the figures for a game later.

I'm also pleased how an army that started as a Fantasy one (GW Empire) has been able to morph into a much more historical one with the additions of a few units.

Remembering the cannons is always good!

[DintheDin]

Thank you very much!

It was no trouble at all, I needed a good number of the figures for a game later.

I'm also pleased how an army that started as a Fantasy one (GW Empire) has been able to morph into a much more historical one with the additions of a few units.

Remembering the cannons is always good!

Remember the cannons!  
Plastic Revel 1/72, the two leftmost cannons scratchbuilt, 30 years ago

[Yuber Okami]

Take into account that at the beginning of the XVIth century landskenechts fought alongside spanish tercios in most battles. In fact, until the war of spanish succession "spanish" armies were comprised of men from several different nationalities, with spaniards rarely making the bulk of them. At Pavia, it was told that most pikemen were germans meanwhile the shorter spaniards made most of the arquebusier numbers. Maybe for armies of that age you could use the tercio formation with the german mercenaries.

[Bushbaby]

The top image is an illustration of a swedish 16th century battle formation, the "Fänika". It consisted of 500 men.

The center block is made up of pikemen with the banner in the middle with a few rows of halberds and wings of shot on both sides. The separate formations are so called "forlorn" groups with a mix of rondassiers, shot, halberd and pike.

I will probably create something like that or perhaps like this:

[vodkafan]

I do love me a nice looking Tercio.  I am enjoying this thread!

[DintheDin]

I do love me a nice looking Tercio.  I am enjoying this thread!

I found some impressive pics at this link

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=105060