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Author Topic: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW WIPs: orc kitbashes and trolls)  (Read 2503 times)

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW armies in progress)
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2021, 07:31:06 AM »
Oathmark goblin and Caesar orc: these will be Morax (how I cringe at the Mantic names!).

Offline 102-year-old-man

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW armies in progress)
« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2021, 07:40:23 AM »
oh, I really like your 1/72 projects and your creativity on mixing other scales in 8)

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW armies in progress)
« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2021, 10:37:49 AM »
Thanks!

I think the mix of scales is going to be a real help with this project. It'll help to keep the orcs suitably beefy and justify their 'heavy infantry' designation - particularly the archers, as the Caesar bow-orcs aren't the biggest of the breed. They'll also help to keep the Orc army compatible with 28mm armies, should I (or the kids) ever want to play against those.

Happily, I already have a wyvern-riding orc chief in the works - an Oathmark goblin perched on a very old Citadel wyvern. He'll be based on a 60mm square for HotT, rather than the regulation 75mm square for KoW, but I can't imagine that will make a blind bit of difference. If I ever need him on an official base, I can sabot him (perhaps adding a fringe of skulls or something to the 75mm square).

I've been musing on how best to supplement my HotT goblins for KoW. I was going to go with 40mm bases to complete the 100mm frontage, but I reckon I'll go with a few individuals based on squares - so that they can be placed to either side, thus preserving the look of the HotT elements (which have banners, leader-types, etc., in the centre).

One thing that I though might not work properly in 1/72 was cavalry; I thought the smaller-scale horses might be swamped on the 125mm frontage. But I've just tried it out with some Italieri knights, and they look just fine. I think it helps that 28mm horses tend to be undersized while 1/72 horses tend to be to scale.

So far, the 1/72 layouts I've tried have all looked about right with 8 or 16 of the smaller figures. But with shield-armed heavy infantry, I may have to go with more figures on the base. I'm no expert on medieval formations, but I suspect that late-medieval foot knights can't have been too densely packed, given the reliance on poleaxes, which need room to swing. But spear-and-shield types are a different matter. In those cases, I'll just go with whatever looks right, even if it's 25 or 30.

Offline Chief Lackey Rich

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW armies in progress)
« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2021, 12:26:03 PM »
Oathmark goblin and Caesar orc: these will be Morax (how I cringe at the Mantic names!).

I don't know, "one, more" is about what I expect of orc math skills.  :)

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW armies in progress)
« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2021, 09:37:21 PM »
I don't know, "one, more" is about what I expect of orc math skills.  :)

A fair point!  ;)

Today's rain prevented me from spraying the first couple of human units I've based up, but I have the first two ogres underway (I'm going with red skin in tribute to the Mantic originals). I also stumbled across an extra box of Caesar orcs in town today, so have plenty of options for full-sized regiments now. I'll aim for a regiment each of Greatax and Ax to begin with, with the Morax as a troop.

I've decided to keep the Ral Partha orcs on individual 25mm squares - so that they can eventually form units when I have enough done. In the meantime, I'll use them as characters in the orc army - an incentive to get some painted!

I gather that the Salamander army list in UE has some large infantry (like Warhammer troglodytes). Happily, I have three Mantic salamanders on 40mm squares from an old 15mm HotT project, so they'll fill that slot while Caesar lizardmen cover the salamander role.

To maintain impetus on this project, I'm aiming to just pick and choose regiments and accompanying troops/heroes from a range of army lists, going on what I have to hand in 1/72. So the initial armies will be fairly random, but they'll consist of the cores of bigger projects. I reckon I've got enough to make a start on orcs, Basileans/kingdoms of men, goblins, ratkin, elves, salamanders and the Herd - hoovering up all the by-products of our HotT armies and 1/72 RPG projects.

Offline 102-year-old-man

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW armies in progress)
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2021, 09:41:48 PM »
maybe the new Elhiem fantasy humans could be interessting for one of your projects:

https://www.elhiem.co.uk/ourshop/cat_1678863-FANTASY-20mm-RPG.html

I really like those Mercenaries with sword and buckler and the Mercenary Captains o_o

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW armies in progress)
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2021, 08:02:35 AM »
Thanks for the tip! I hadn't seen those, and they do look good. I've got most of the Elhiem adventurers, which are terrific. And there's certainly a lot of potential for using those as character models.

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW armies in progress)
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2021, 08:10:03 PM »
Here's a size comparison of a Ral Partha orc next to a 1/72 human; I reckon the RP fellow is dead on as a big orc hero in this scale. So he'll be the first 'krudger' or 'krumper' or whatever. And, gradually, as I get more of his fellows painted, I'll be able to form an individually based unit of especially big orcs.

And here, too, are the WIP ogres. They're pretty formidably sized at this scale; in fact, both are as big as some of the Citadel ogres I used in Warhammer aeons ago. I got a few more of their ilk based up at lunchtime, so they'll probably be the first full unit completed.

The ogres and the Caesar/Oathmark/RP orcs will give some of these forces a bit of visual validity if they're ever used against 28mm foes. I like the idea of having sub-sets that can be used to create 'scaled-up' armies - as with my HotT 1/72 stuff, where the goblin hordes, orc warbands and behemoths all work fine in 28mm - the former two playing the 'small but vicious' card!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 08:13:05 PM by Hobgoblin »

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW armies in progress)
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2021, 10:58:18 AM »
Some kitbashes for the orc army: a Morax troop (with a couple of spaces to fill) and some headswaps for the Greatax regiment I'm putting together. The Caesar orcs have three or four poses with two-handed weapons and a few more with very large one-handed weapons and no shields. But for a base of 16-20, headswaps and other conversions will be required. These heads are from Wargames Atlantic goblins, which are large, though I don't mind that (big heads are a properly Orcish trait!). I'll also be using Oathmark goblin heads, which are about the same size as the Caesar ones, and simply swapping some Caesar heads over. And I'll do some weapon swaps too.

The Caesar plastic is a bit like the Reaper Bones stuff (though harder) and is highly receptive to superglue and pin vices, which makes all this much easier than it would be with most 1/72 manufacturers.

One good thing about the Caesar orc set is that a lot of the figures can be easily kitbashed into different roles. So the chaps with big axes or clubs and no shields can have shields added, or be left alone and be presumed to be two-handed wielders for the most part, or have additional weapons added to the off-hands.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 11:00:37 AM by Hobgoblin »

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW armies in progress + orc kitbashes)
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2021, 04:57:32 PM »
I did some digging for trolls at lunchtime. These fellows - along with a big Nick Lund troll who awaits a replacement weapon - will form a horde or a brace of 'regiments'. I have a few more of the Acropolis ones, so I'll probably convert one to bolster the ranks and allow the horned-helmet guy or the Lund fellow to act independently as a 'troll bruiser'.

It helps that three of them are part painted, so I should be able to get the first three finished fairly quickly. They'll look suitably distinct from the ogres, and they're about the right size for Mantic trolls scaled down to 1/72. And all of them will work as behemoths for 15mm HotT and similar games.

Offline fred

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW WIPs: orc kitbashes and trolls)
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2021, 08:15:14 PM »
Are you keeping them in the fridge?

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW WIPs: orc kitbashes and trolls)
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2021, 08:51:20 PM »
Are you keeping them in the fridge?

Ha! No - it doesn't slow the regeneration sufficiently. They were atop a radiator to speed the drying of the bases. All six are based now, and I should get onto painting them tomorrow.

Meanwhile, the painting of the ogres and humans is well underway; I'm deliberately working on many units at once to keep the momentum going. The plan is to have several quite large armies done by the Christmas holidays - not as tricky a task as it sounds, as three goblin regiments will spring into being with the completion of some 'extras' on individual bases - or one horde. To field a horde of goblins, I only need four 'extras' (I'm quite tempted to base them on all as a single long column) as I'll use all six HotT bases, but I'll need eight for each regiment.

I also - and serendipitously - acquired a whole lot of old Prince August stuff earlier this year, which should allow for some wolf-rider troops/regiments and some individually based orc units.

The orc base sizes make scaling up the HotT units a bit trickier (as they have 60 x 30 bases for a 125 x 100 footprint). That's why I'm building orc units afresh. I reckon a couple of Ral Partha command figures on a 50 x 50 square will do the trick for a war drum.

Offline fred

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW WIPs: orc kitbashes and trolls)
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2021, 08:59:21 PM »
Have you thought about sabot bases - 6 Orc bases would fit nicely on a 125x100 sabot

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW WIPs: orc kitbashes and trolls)
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2021, 09:16:01 PM »
Have you thought about sabot bases - 6 Orc bases would fit nicely on a 125x100 sabot

Yes - I could probably get something like that from the tremendous Warbases (or just make it myself). One thing, though, is that my HotT orc warbands are less clearly defined, weapons-wise, than the KoW troop types, as most of the HotT elements have a mix of shields and two-handed weapons. That's true of the goblins, too, but they're very clearly "rabble"! So I'm trying to build units (like the Morax one above) with a clear designation. I suspect I may field a slightly dodgy 120 x 90 orc regiment to begin with, though!

It did occur to me that a weird T-shaped base, with a half-centimetre "stalk" and a two-centimentre "head" could be lined with suitable figures to create a base that would lock two HotT bases into a heavy-infantry troop. A sideways figure (like a standard-bearer) on the stalk and three on the head would bring the group up to the regulation ten. But it might just be simple to play with undersized heavy-infantry bases until the regulation ones are finished!

Offline fred

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Re: Question about Kings of War (1/72 KoW WIPs: orc kitbashes and trolls)
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2021, 09:27:03 PM »
Whilst base sizes do matter to a fair degree in KoW, Im not sure 5 or 10mm is critical. An Orc horde with its large footprint is more unwieldy to move through / around terrain and friendly units and allows more enemy units to counter attack it.

Im not quite getting the T shaped sabot - but I have used sabot bases with a 2 up 1 back arrangement to use 3 Warmaster 40x20mm bases on a 100x50mm sabot for Warband - and those look pretty good. Id not worry too much about filling the sabot with figures, and Id not worry at all about bringing units up to full figure count (other than monster types like Ogres or Trolls). KoW even has a rule to allow lower figure count units - which is around 70% of the max size. But basically as long as its obvious what is a troop, a regiment or a horde - and the base size really tells you this - as long as the figure count has a reasonable density and looks good, then you are good to go. This goes double as you are doing both sides and are unlikely to be fielding your 20mm units against the more typical 28mm KoW units.

 

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