Scottish Infantry at Lewes

[rampantlion]

There was supposedly a fairly large contingent of Scottish foot at the battle of Lewes in the king's army.  Does anyone know if they looked like the Scots from the wars of independence with long spears or would they have just looked like the English foot that they were with?  I assume that they would have had similar armor to their English infantry counterparts but not sure if the weapons were the same.

Thanks

[frank xerox]

Take this with a pinch of salt, but from memory accounts of the battle of Largs a year after Lewes don't mention schiltrons at all - axes and short spears are the things.

[Atheling]

I cannot speak specifially re: Battle of Lewes.

I can say that the idea of every Scottish soldier being armed with a long spear isn't too far fetched. But, only to the extent that their English counterparts would have been similarly armed.

Scottish men at arms of any rank were not the poor equivalents of the English.

This myth really need to be eradicated.

[Iain R]

Wot Atheling said.

The spear was the primary infantry arm of the day (length doesn't really come into it). There would have been no discernable difference in arms and accoutrements between a lowland Scots and English footsoldier (or Knight, as above) of the period. Even "Highlanders" would not have been terribly different, at least not to the extent that most people imagine.

[Atheling]

Wot Atheling said.

The spear was the primary infantry arm of the day (length doesn't really come into it). There would have been no discernable difference in arms and accoutrements between a lowland Scots and English footsoldier (or Knight, as above) of the period. Even "Highlanders" would not have been terribly different, at least not to the extent that most people imagine.

Iain is spot on. 

The idea that the average soldier of the Lowland and Highland Scots would have been poorer then their English counterparts is just ludicrous.

It is a myth that has permeated some Military History circles too which grinds my bones if I'm honest.

[swiftnick]

Agreed!

[rampantlion]

Maybe the continued talk of being poorly armed and dressed lends itself to the underdog or oppressed narrative that folks like to embrace.

[Atheling]

Maybe the continued talk of being poorly armed and dressed lends itself to the underdog or oppressed narrative that folks like to embrace.

From memory, it actually goes back to the historical literature (I cannot recall which documents off the top of my head but it definitely exists).

You're almost certainly correct. Medieval "historians" were pretty fast and loose on their facts.

[Ragsta]

Consider me reeducated- this is interesting stuff. I’m now worried that I may have been subconsciously conditioned by watching Braveheart as a kid…

[frank xerox]

Yup, Scottish knights being under armoured and badly mounted seems to be another one that’s taken root in wargaming that and schiltrons can’t move.

[swiftnick]

Yes add to that archers from the Ettrick forest. Only light cavalry as no access to big horses and other silliness.

[Iain R]

There is more sense being talked in this thread than in most books...

[frank xerox]

Lets not forget "Pikes, Inferior"

[Blackwolf]

And remember,if there were Scots there I dare say a few of them were Islemen,who were by their very nature professionals and well equipped.

[Atheling]

There is more sense being talked in this thread than in most books...

  That, sadly, is true.