The germ of a project: unconventional Middle-earth armies (a switch to 15mm!)

[Hobgoblin]

You know, they're just about perfect as is - maybe a hammer or two flattened to an axe.

Hmm ... I'll resist them for now on the basis that they don't feature at the Pelennor. The Fords of the Isen and Helm's Deep are different matters, though!

[Samsonov]

I have been tempted by Victrix, largely because their humans are relatively large for 28mm, so have a height advantage against 28mm orcs. So what about Victrix Republican Romans in chainmail as Gondor and the upcoming Victrix (with romano-british and german heads) in chainmail as Rohirrim?

Gondor:


Rohirrim:
(More images here https://www.victrixlimited.com/blogs/news-and-media/romano-british)

[LordOdo]

I like the idea of Faramir as a Decurion 

[Hobgoblin]

I have been tempted by Victrix, largely because their humans are relatively large for 28mm, so have a height advantage against 28mm orcs.

That's a very good point. Tolkien puts such emphasis on the gulf between the heights of Orcs and Men that it really needs to be shown clearly. I'm confident that my kitbashed Uruks will be sufficiently stumpy to be looked down upon by most plastic 28s, but having the hefty Victrix types in place helps to accentuate that. If I do get to Isengard armies, I'm certainly going to use Victrix Vikings as the basis for the half-orcs to clearly distinguish them from the Uruk-hai (as 'Flotsam and Jetsam' and 'The Battle of the Fords of the Isen' do).

So what about Victrix Republican Romans in chainmail as Gondor and the upcoming Victrix (with romano-british and german heads) in chainmail as Rohirrim?

Great calls on both counts - thanks! I think Roman Men of Gondor would look sufficiently distinctive from most recent takes to really stand out - especially with a bit of kitbashing (particularly with weapons).

Plenty of Dunlending potential in those Romano-Britons too, of course, should I ever get to Isengard ...

[Kaiphranos]

I'm really intrigued by the concepts here! Sparked by the thought of Haradrim as Carthaginians, I wonder what would happen if you leaned hard into the Classical inspiration:

• Minas Tirith as a Greek polis? (I bet the White Tree would look pretty striking on hoplon shields...)
• Rohirrim as Scythians?
• Elves and Dwarves as holdovers from an earlier era... Assyrian or Near-Eastern Dwarves, some sort of Bronze Age inspired elves?

[Hobgoblin]

Great ideas! Definitely food for thought there!

[jon_1066]

I'm really intrigued by the concepts here! Sparked by the thought of Haradrim as Carthaginians, I wonder what would happen if you leaned hard into the Classical inspiration:

• Minas Tirith as a Greek polis? (I bet the White Tree would look pretty striking on hoplon shields...)
• Rohirrim as Scythians?
• Elves and Dwarves as holdovers from an earlier era... Assyrian or Near-Eastern Dwarves, some sort of Bronze Age inspired elves?

There was a range of big hatted dwarves produced by Games Workshop with a distinct Assyrian vibe. Probably ruinously expensive to get hold of now on ebay but fun miniatures.

[Samsonov]

What about these guys for near Eastern dwarfs: https://cpmodels.co.uk/product-category/28mm-ranges/28mm-fantasy/dwarven-empire/

[LazyStudent]

Any new kitbashing to show off Hobgoblin??

[SteveBurt]

I’ve always visualised the Haradrim as Sassanid Persians, but Carthaginians is an interesting idea

[Hobgoblin]

A belated thanks for the various good ideas since I last replied!

Any new kitbashing to show off Hobgoblin??

I had kitbashed another couple - see below! The guy with the clenched fist needs a shield.

I'm now thinking, though, that I'll base these orcs up for Saga and other skirmish games. I said at the start of this thread that I was tempted to do the Pelennor in 15mm, and I think that's the route I'll take. I have various 15mm orcs lying around that will allow me to get a few bases on the go at zero cost; I've even been playing around with some sample paint schemes (simple and bold - see WIP shot below!).


There are a few reasons for the switch. I've got lots of HOTT forces in 1/72 on 60mm frontages, so building more armies with the same frontages at a different scale seems like unnecessary overlap; I've been repurposing earlier 28mm elements as individually based miniatures since I started using 1/72. But some 15mm forces would come in very handy - for 'away' games with friends and for HOTT competitions, which I've occasionally entered and always enjoyed.

I was also finding it hard to fit the 28mm figures onto the bases. I could usually only get four orcs onto a regulation horde base, which detracted from the effect, and the cavalry were similarly cramped.

A final factor was that I decided we needed a lot more cavalry for our Saga games, so I assembled all the Goth and Arab cavalry I'd got for kitbashing in their original forms.

I am, however, going to keep things as unconventional as I can. The Swan Knights will certainly be winged hussars, and I'll look for some similar historical exotica for other human troop types. Meanwhile, the kitbashing opportunities will come from the bigger beasties - trolls, for example. Tolkien's trolls were about 12 feet tall, so 28mm figures should do the job nicely. I'm starting to think beyond the Pelennor, too, as I've just based up a Frostgrave demon as a balrog (I need to find or manufacture a whip!).

One thing I'm considering is using the old square basing for the hordes - so that the massed Uruks look suitably teeming. The square bases are still 'legit' in the current edition, and the figures would then be appropriately based for Mayhem.

[Hobgoblin]

I just tested out basing for this new 15mm direction. As I want to use a lot of the long, low Tin Soldier orcs (like those above) as the mainstay of my Uruks, old-fashioned square horde bases make a lot of sense. That also allows me to include some doubled warbands (40 x 20mm) among the Orcish ranks without breaking the formation.

While I'll argue fiercely to anyone who'll listen that Uruks are clearly the mainstays of the armies of Mordor and Isengard by the time of the War of the Ring, there are also indications that there were especially large Orcs among the Uruk ranks - witness Helm's Deep, where the "hugest Orcs" are mustered before the gate - the superlative telling us that these were the biggest of the big.

So including a few warband units as "the hugest" Uruks seems fair. And those can also serve as the bodyguard of Bolg if I ever do the Five Armies (where the majority of the Orcs are the smaller kinds). And of course the doubled warbands will work fine as squares for Mayhem. I've just based up a sample warband unit (old Asgard or TTG giant goblins) to kick this project off in earnest.

This is going to be a slow burner; I'm in no rush to get the project finished, though a HOTT tournament in November (if it's back on) might be a natural target. I just plan to go one element at a time, hoovering up 15s from the leadpile as I go. I'm not planning on buying anything for this until I've got at least 24AP painted, at which point it might be time for some opposition!

[DivisMal]

I just tested out basing for this new 15mm direction. As I want to use a lot of the long, low Tin Soldier orcs (like those above) as the mainstay of my Uruks, old-fashioned square horde bases make a lot of sense. That also allows me to include some doubled warbands (40 x 20mm) among the Orcish ranks without breaking the formation.

While I'll argue fiercely to anyone who'll listen that Uruks are clearly the mainstays of the armies of Mordor and Isengard by the time of the War of the Ring, there are also indications that there were especially large Orcs among the Uruk ranks - witness Helm's Deep, where the "hugest Orcs" are mustered before the gate - the superlative telling us that these were the biggest of the big.

So including a few warband units as "the hugest" Uruks seems fair. And those can also serve as the bodyguard of Bolg if I ever do the Five Armies (where the majority of the Orcs are the smaller kinds). And of course the doubled warbands will work fine as squares for Mayhem. I've just based up a sample warband unit (old Asgard or TTG giant goblins) to kick this project off in earnest.

This is going to be a slow burner; I'm in no rush to get the project finished, though a HOTT tournament in November (if it's back on) might be a natural target. I just plan to go one element at a time, hoovering up 15s from the leadpile as I go. I'm not planning on buying anything for this until I've got at least 24AP painted, at which point it might be time for some opposition!

Really very excited about this project. Khurasan has a nice not-LotR series that offers decent Nazgul and stuff. I like your idea with the bright orangish spear shafts. The armor is black, right? And the skin tone is the GW shade? That looks very good indeed and suitably quick for painting a huge army.

[Hobgoblin]

Really very excited about this project. Khurasan has a nice not-LotR series that offers decent Nazgul and stuff. I like your idea with the bright orangish spear shafts. The armor is black, right? And the skin tone is the GW shade? That looks very good indeed and suitably quick for painting a huge army.

Cheers!

Yes, the bright spear shafts are to give the whole thing a slightly stylised, 'illustration' look - not Middle-earth as a film-maker might portray it, but more as it might be shown in a Pauline Baynes or Ian Miller illustration. The armour is natural steel washed in Agrax.

As for the skin: I'm trying to remember how I did these (it was a while ago - when I first posted this thread)! It's based on a scheme I've used for 28mm goblins, which was mid-sea grey washed with sepia, then highlighted in grey, buff and pale flesh. But I can't remember now whether I used the base and wash or just picked a brown colour (flat earth, maybe?) and highlighted from there. It was very quick, in any case, and I'm sure I'll be able to reconstruct it. The idea is for it to be sallow (as per the book, hence the buff), subterranean-looking (the grey base) and livid (through the pinkish highlights and so that it will 'pop' a bit on the table). After giving them another look under a bright lamp, I think I did switch to starting with flat earth rather than bothering with the sepia wash. I'll give that a go on the next one!

The clothing isn't painted yet, but is going to be universally black.

I have an old 15mm Nazgul on winged beast - Asgard, I think. It's quite nice, so I'll probably use that for the Witch-king.

For Olog-hai trolls, I reckon these 28mm Northstar Fomorians will probably be the best option; I think the shields are separate, so can be replaced with smaller bucklers, and some of the other weapons could be remodelled as hammers. But I'm going to stick to my vows and not buy any until I've got 24AP painted!



Easterlings, Variags and Haradrim will be the next step once I've exhausted my supply of 15mm Orcs.

[DivisMal]

Cheers!

Yes, the bright spear shafts are to give the whole thing a slightly stylised, 'illustration' look - not Middle-earth as a film-maker might portray it, but more as it might be shown in a Pauline Baynes or Ian Miller illustration. The armour is natural steel washed in Agrax.

…

The clothing isn't painted yet, but is going to be universally black.

…

For Olog-hai trolls, I reckon these 28mm Northstar Fomorians will probably be the best option; I think the shields are separate, so can be replaced with smaller bucklers, and some of the other weapons could be remodelled as hammers.

Thanks, Hobgoblin. I shall try that when I return to my own 15s some days.
The Olog-hai is an interesting option. For The Silver Bayonet I always thought those models looked too brutish, but you’re right, they make very good 15mm Ologs!