*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 22, 2024, 08:44:45 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Recent

Author Topic: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'  (Read 6808 times)

Offline Hobgoblin

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4931
    • Hobgoblinry
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2024, 11:19:15 AM »

On the "Arthurian" figures, almost all mounted but for three - two can be/are Viking/Saxon types with the third of foot being William, at least one of the mounted figures will be used as a mounted Azeem (not Azim?). 

It's perhaps worth noting that Azeem in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves seems to be based on Nasir in Robin of Sherwood. I don't think there was any precedent for a Saracen Merry Man beforehand, and the mooted Robin of Sherwood film kind of bled into the two 1991 Robin Hood films, from what I remember.

Your 13th Warrior bear-men are very Robin of Sherwood, as the series dabbles quite a lot in atavism and ancient survivals.

Offline Hobgoblin

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4931
    • Hobgoblinry
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2024, 01:29:28 AM »
This fan-made trailer for the Swords of Wayland episode of Robin of Sherwood just drips with scenario ideas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcCdhegvjew

Offline FifteensAway

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4647
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2024, 04:30:03 AM »
That video immediately took me here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOWjX4BpC24

Yeah, not Robin Hood at all, but that's where it took me!  :o

Now just need to adapt it to a scenario.   lol
« Last Edit: February 28, 2024, 04:39:55 AM by FifteensAway »

Offline Hobgoblin

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4931
    • Hobgoblinry
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2024, 01:37:37 PM »

Yeah, not Robin Hood at all, but that's where it took me!  :o

Welll, outlaws ....  :D

Now just need to adapt it to a scenario.   lol

It occurred to me that the eerie Swords of Wayland riders ("the Hounds of Lucifer"?) could be replaced by the Splintered Light bear-skinned riders. Now, of course, "Arthur" means "the Bear" ...

Also, if you want another Arthur/Robin connection besides TH White's, Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence involves both Arthur (though unnamed, I think) and Herne the Hunter - and the latter links to Robin of Sherwood ...

Offline FifteensAway

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4647
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2024, 02:01:53 AM »
I like that idea about the bear skinned riders for the "Ghost Riders in the Sky".  Gives me further thought on how to use them, especially since I didn't order hordes of them, just enough figures for two foot units and only one pack of the riders.

Offline FifteensAway

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4647
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2024, 09:39:01 PM »
Was able to acquire a copy of the Prince Valiant movie and watched it again - probably last seen 60+ years ago.  Pretty silly movie in many ways but at least there was some jousting scenes. 

And those cow horned Viking helmets should be used in a Saturday Night Live skit!  Perhaps the most absurd props I've ever seen. 

Despite that, might inspire some scenario ideas.  Still hoping to find a copy of Ivanhoe - and hoping for a better movie given its cast.

Offline Hobgoblin

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4931
    • Hobgoblinry
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2024, 11:58:45 PM »
I recall the 90s BBC version of Ivanhoe being pretty good - Christopher Lee and all. I haven't seen it since it aired, but my flatmates and I watched it religiously at the time, and I recall that there was some pretty gripping jousting. Online reviewers seem to like it, so I presume it holds up quite well. It appears to be free in the US with Amazon Prime (or a trial ...).

A "meta" Hood/Arthur connection for you: Robert Addie plays Mordred in Excalibur and Guy of Gisborne in Robin of Sherwood.

Offline FifteensAway

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4647
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2024, 05:41:44 AM »
Well, I've sorted out my Robin Hood miniatures collection including resolving my Arthurian figures conundrum.  All those figures have now been incorporated into the lists below of the final tally of designated Robin Hood gaming figures - including 22 named characters with both a mounted and dismounted version and 4 more just on foot. 

While the four on foot retain Arthurian names they shall be used in a different capacity, Merlin as a counselor to King Richard, Guinevere as his mistress, Bishop of Black Canons aligned with Prince John, Morgana as some sort of harridan - perhaps a mistress to Prince John (also have a Mortiana with the Sheriff). 

Feel free to - gently - take issue with any of the names below if you can support the name being inappropriate and you have a constructive reason to replace the name as well as the justified replacement name.

Not all of the figures for mounted/dismounted are great matches but most are close enough for my purposes - except perhaps Malcolm of Locksley (perhaps an unknown brother of Robin rather than his father???) and his retainers (all with Anglo-Saxon names but purely imaginative inventions otherwise) - a couple of those mounted figures were meant to be Arthur himself.

The two 'escort' figures with each of the named mounted/dismounted are there to keep the heroes - and, dang it, the villains, too - living longer by taking wounds instead of the character - though none for Malcom and his entourage, though his retainers might perform the same function.  The third figure with the Sheriff is the Tax Collector.  For now, the four named foot figures don't get their 'extras' but I reserve the right to add them in.  edit: just realized I didn't give Richard or John their 'extra' figures - hmm, maybe, maybe not - likely to only have cameo appearances.  How say you LAF members?

The mounted Malcolm contingent is there to give Robin a distinct edge - games don't have to be entirely fair and a hero like Robin should get an edge up!   :o.  Of course, the dice can render that moot - or the scenario design.  They also offer a bit of a counter balance to the Sheriff having cross bow men.

The seven 12 figure foot units for Robin Hood and the seven 12 figure foot units for the Sheriff will each be under one of the named characters and might be allowed to reduce to three groups of four figures.  A few players might get larger contingents than others but generally one named character and a unit - or just the characters.  Should work fine with Fistful of Lead: Bigger Battles with units and Heroes and Villains.

Do take note of the handlers and dogs - shades of Prince of Thieves.

I think of the woman with Robin as someone he rescued from certain death who has pledged her life to him - haven't picked her name yet.

The two groups of mounted escorts are probably out of period but it works for my sense of putting on a fun game, they have either front half quilted barding or full quilted barding (Forged in Battle figures).

I have allocated the individual round bases for all the figures, mounted and foot figures - though I'd need to pull eight more bases from the 'reserve' for the named foot figures 'extras' if added.

Now its down to prepping the figures, glueing to bases, priming, and painting.

Here is the list:

ROBIN HOOD PRIMARY COLLECTION

edit: deleted to save space, see 'new and improved' list below

These latter figures from the two paragraphs above will be on the thinner, cheaper steel bases - all the others on the nicer and slightly thicker bases.  All we be stored on magnetic sheets for transport and storage.

Of course, for small skirmish games, only need a fraction of the total - so may focus on getting that level of figures painted first.  Not quite yet - have some other painting projects on the table to get cleared away / finished first.  But soon.  Hopefully.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2024, 06:55:16 PM by FifteensAway »

Offline Hobgoblin

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4931
    • Hobgoblinry
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2024, 10:22:53 AM »
Interesting.

On the names: Malcolm is Scots Gaelic - Maol Chaluim and associated with the Scottish royal family (see Macbeth). Malcom IV was on the Scottish throne during the lifetime of Richard I (though before the latter's coronation). So it seems an extremely unlikely name for an English nobleman without a connection to the Scottish royal family (Malcolm IV was also Earl of Huntingdon and Earl of Northumbria). The Earl of Huntingdon during Richard I's reign was David (prince of Scotland and Malcolm IV's younger brother).

There is a strand of Robin Hood lore that makes Robin the son of the Earl of Huntingdon (a sixteenth-century play by Anthony Munday), but that dates from long after the Scottish connection with the title ceased. The earldom was created again subsequently, more than once. So the name Malcolm strikes a false note.

Obviously, you're "printing the legend" here, but I think an English name for Robin's father would make much more sense - Robert of Locksley, perhaps?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2024, 11:08:07 AM by Hobgoblin »

Offline FifteensAway

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4647
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2024, 11:38:11 PM »
Hobgoblin, thanks for the input.  The only reason I used Malcolm is because when I did an internet search for the name of Robin Hood's father, that is what came up.  Will have a cogitation on this before making a final decision.

Taking a short break then out to paint the undersides of all the dedicated Robin Hood bases - including adding the last 12 foot bases left, two men for Prince John, two men for Malcolm (or whoever he turns out to be) but none for his retainers, and 8 or 9 foot and 4 mounted (unarmed, two ladies) for King Richard's retinue with some of them unarmed (the 9th foot base for KR is because I think I had an overcount of one base for one group); that gives the King lots of protection in a game if they all need to be 'used up' before he can go down.  Added six additional mounted bases for six horses without riders - table decoration. 

Color for the underside of the bases?  Why, green, of course!    ;)

Hope to also work on the thinner bases for the civilians - which I may paint the undersides a different color - or the same, as the mood strikes me.

Break over and...

...braving cold, wet, windy weather - that I wouldn't prime figures in but okay for just the base - and staying under the eaves of the garage, all the bases for Robin Hood figures are now primed:



Yup, that there be a few bases, yessir.  The bigger ones are 1" across, the smaller ones 3/4" across.

Not even going to dream of priming today the thinner bases for the unarmed civilians - they'd fly away in the wind!  But I did get them all sorted out including plenty of extras in case of miscounts, they are cheap enough to do that - and can be repainted if I need them another color anyway.

Progress moving forward, if not very exciting to look at.

Almost forgot, got my Splintered Light order today - the bear clan figures and some additional Viking figures to round out that collection, including a dozen Shield Maidens, historical or not they're going to get used!  Prompt service.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2024, 01:02:24 AM by FifteensAway »

Offline FifteensAway

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4647
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2024, 03:28:20 PM »
Tossing about before rising this morning, I realized a solution to a minor issue - wanting to have a leader for each of the seven 12 figure forces per side for games.  No problem for the Robin Hood faction since there are eight already including Marian - who does not get a force.  But I only have six for the Sheriff's faction. 

However, if I drop one figure from Malcolm's group that gives me a a figure to become a Named Character both mounted and foot and then I can reduce the King's entourage by two foot figures and that gives me the two companions.  I kind of like Malcolm having an even four companions, too.  I didn't want to use Prince John because of his mostly cameo roles. 

So, I cast about for who to use and first settled on Bertrand de Nivelles from the Robin of Sherwood series who was a mercenary tasked with destroying Robin and his men.  But then I remembered Sir Godfrey - the French name and all of Bertrand - from the Russell Crowe version and I rather liked that portrayal so decided to go with him.  It doesn't hurt that he, too, is out to destroy Robin and his men plus his potential turncoat nature vis-a-vis the French, gives an easy entree for my Normans as an invading force.  And then Robin can rally the local Saxons to come out in force and use those figures.

That means I can have fourteen sets of Named Characters with two sidekicks and a force of 12 armed men each.  And thus I can have up to 14 players in a game - and perhaps a few more by adding the Prince and the King and Malcom.  And Marian, of course - but without a force.  Perhaps a few others without forces but important within a scenario.  But a normal 'full load' will be 14 players.  Can always go with fewer players with each player having two or three Characters and their forces.  Or just smaller games without the whole collection on table.

So, Sir Godfrey has joined "the cast".  Just need to sort the figures a bit at some point.

If it all works out to have 14 players, then most of the players will only need to maneuver 15 figures.
----
The "new and improved" listing:

ROBIN HOOD PRIMARY COLLECTION

Robin Hood, mounted and dismounted         1 man, 1 woman (Joan Rye)
Azeem, mounted and dismounted         2 young men as foot escort
Little John, mounted and dismounted         2 men as foot escort
Friar Tuck, mounted and dismounted         2 men as foot escort
Will Scarlet, mounted and dismounted         2 men as foot escort
Much the miller’s son, mounted and dismounted   2 men as foot escort
Alan-a-Dale, mounted and dismounted      2 men as foot escort
Lady Marian Lancaster, mounted and dismounted   2 women foot escort

Longbowmen       12 foot - Robin Hood
Longbowmen       12 foot - Will Scarlet
Longbowmen       12 foot - Much the miller’s son
Swordsmen       12 foot - Alan-a-Dale
Spearmen       12 foot - Azeem
Staffmen               12 foot - Little John
Staff and Macemen    12 foot - Friar Tuck

Montgomery Longstride, mounted and dismounted 2 men as foot escort
(Brother of Robin Hood)   Entourage: 4 mtd and 4 dismtd (Larcwide, Slean, Baldice, Norian)

Merlin, King's counselor   - foot only, no escort
Guinevere, King's mistress   - foot only, no escort

King Richard, mounted and dismounted         6 (or 7) men and women foot
                     2 and 2 mounted men and women
Half barded mounted escort, 12 mounted (can also use as Prince John’s mounted escort)
Fully barded mounted escort, 12 mounted
—  —
Sheriff of Nottingham, Robert de Rainault, mtd and dismtd 2 men, 1 woman (Mortiana)
Guy of Gisborne, mounted and dismounted         2 men as foot escort
Bishop of Hereford, William de Vere, mtd and dismtd   2 men as foot escort
Drefan - Naedre de Mort, mounted and dismounted   2 men as foot escort
Prior Vincent of Emmet, mounted and dismounted   2 men as foot escort
Captain Ralph of Huntingdon, mounted and dismounted 2 men as foot escort
Sir Godfrey, mounted and dismounted                  2 men as foot escort

Crossbowmen      12 foot - Sheriff of Nottingham
Longbowmen      12 foot - Captain Ralph of Huntingdon
Swordsmen      12 foot - Guy of Gisborne
Sword and Spearmen   12 foot - Drefan - Naedre de Mort
Axeman              12 foot - Sir Godfrey
Spearmen              12 foot - Bishop of Hereford
Spearmen              12 foot - Prior Vincent of Emmet

Prince John, mounted and foot             2 men as foot escort            

Bishop Montague of Black Canons - foot only, no escort (Prince's counselor)
Morgana, Prince's mistress       - foot only, no escort

List above does not include unarmed civilians to populate villages, castles, etc., which are multi-purpose for Robin Hood, Jousting, Picts, Viking raiding games, and some for Three Musketeers if workable.  Extra figure with Sheriff is the Tax Collector.  Many additional figures may be named over time but the Named Characters are principles in this "Table Top Variation of Robin Hood".

Additional figures for Normans, Saxon, Picts - and Vikings for raiding games.
possible additional named characters to add at some point: Will Stutley - Robin’s Friend, Sir Richard of Lea
« Last Edit: March 04, 2024, 03:44:57 PM by FifteensAway »

Offline Hobgoblin

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4931
    • Hobgoblinry
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2024, 09:47:25 PM »
Hobgoblin, thanks for the input.  The only reason I used Malcolm is because when I did an internet search for the name of Robin Hood's father, that is what came up.  Will have a cogitation on this before making a final decision.

That seems to come from a BBC TV series in the 2000s. There's no established tradition of Robin Hood having a father with a Gaelic name.

I suspect what happened is that the BBC scriptwriters followed the Earl of Huntingdon strand and noticed that an Earl of Huntingdon in the 12th century called Malcolm - but failed to twig that he was an absentee earl who had been obliged to swap fiefs on the Scottish border for Huntingdon. Really poor scriptwriting, I think - the name is just so jarringly Scottish in a medieval context.

There are plenty of personal names that were common to both Scottish and English aristocrats at that time, but those chiefly came from Norman French (Robert, William, Nigel, Henry etc.) or the Bible (James, David, John, etc.). An English nobleman with a Gaelic name seems incredibly unlikely; I'd guess that Malcolm only really became established as a common (or at least not unusual) given name in England in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.

The 'Earl of Huntingdon' strand to the Robin Hood legend hinges on the eighteenth-century invention of a rival claim to the earldom (i.e. not the Scots) and builds on the sixteenth-century play that cooked up the Huntingdon story. In this strand, the English line contains two Earl Roberts, with Robert FitzOoth (= Robin Hood) the third rightful Robert of Huntingdon. So I'd say that "Robert" is a more "authentic" name for Robin Hood's father (albeit in an entirely confected narrative).

Robert is also satisfying as a name for the father of the outlaw because "Robin" is a diminutive form of "Robert" - so "Robin" could very well be "Young Robert".

Both Ivanhoe (the novel or any adaptation) and Robin of Sherwood are rich sources of authentic-sounding names. The latter shares with the Dragon Warriors RPG a rare ability to distill the essence of British history and folklore into evocative entertainment.

Offline FifteensAway

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4647
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2024, 09:14:06 AM »
Hobgoblin - and others, note I have revisited the list above and made some additional edits, one of which is I've changed the name to Montgomery Longstride (no longer Malcolm) and have him being some previously unknown brother of Robin Hood, brother instead of father because his father is too often killed early in the stories/movies, when he exists.  Also adjusted the spelling of Naedre de Mort, an invention to match a snake wielding figure - an evil sorcerer sort of figure, with a first name of Drefan, Anglo-Saxon name meaning 'trouble'; and corrected his name for the unit he controls.  Also named Sheriff's female escort as Mortiana.  I've also named the woman escort with Robin Hood as Joan Rye - taking Joan from Joan Rice, an actress in one of the portrayals, and rye as a native English grain.  Oh, and made it Lady Marian Lancaster rather than Maid Marian. 

Perhaps by the time I get it all painted I will have settled all the names!  :o  lol

edit: Bishop of Black Canons to be Montague - after actor who portrayed, changed in above list
« Last Edit: March 04, 2024, 03:42:47 PM by FifteensAway »

Offline Hobgoblin

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4931
    • Hobgoblinry
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2024, 07:29:36 PM »
Also adjusted the spelling of Naedre de Mort, an invention to match a snake wielding figure - an evil sorcerer sort of figure, with a first name of Drefan, Anglo-Saxon name meaning 'trouble'.

Great stuff! It's a famous example of an N being dropped from Old English words, isn't it? Naedre to adder, right?

Offline FifteensAway

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4647
Re: Robin Hood - the merits of playing miniatures for the 'legend'
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2024, 08:28:11 PM »
Latest "debate with myself" is whether or not to add some foot figures for Richard, say a dozen crossbow and a dozen swordsmen.  Which will lead to another debate about adding foot for John - and moving the half barded cavalry for sure to his command.  36 more figures won't break the bank - or the painting budget (painting time, not paying to paint).  If I make the add, Richard automatically gets to outnumber John.  That just seems right.  And if it isn't, well, oh, well.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
5 Replies
4819 Views
Last post January 01, 2010, 01:03:52 PM
by Svennn
43 Replies
15611 Views
Last post October 10, 2013, 01:03:59 AM
by Helen
7 Replies
3351 Views
Last post January 01, 2014, 02:30:39 PM
by Paul
54 Replies
14948 Views
Last post July 30, 2015, 06:54:46 PM
by AndyW
35 Replies
12159 Views
Last post July 30, 2015, 06:50:16 PM
by AndyW